Unmatched pickup combo question

[dozymuppet]

I'm not very knowledgeable about the pros and cons of various pickup specs, but I really like the idea of having two "unmatched" pickups, and being able to switch between neck and bridge for very different purposes.

This is mostly stimulated by Joe Duplantier's setup (https://www.charvel.com/gear/shape/s...any/2976181357) , with DiMarzio PAF 36th Anniversary in the neck, and a DiMarzio Fortitude in the bridge (based on the PAF), with a switch and volume pot only.

I'm wondering if something like a Tonerider Alnico 2 Classics in the neck paired with a Tonerider Octane Alnico 8 in the bridge would work.
https://www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/...kel-humbucker/
https://www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/...mbucker-black/

Purely personal choice? Or, yeah nah?

[Simon Barden]

By 'unmatched' do you simply mean 'not the same model'?

The Joe Duplantier arrangement is one both of very similar sounding pickups, as both are PAF types, both with Alnico V magnets. They'd have very similar outputs, so no big volume difference when switching between them. So I'd call them a well-matched set

Your proposed set will have more of a volume difference, but probably comparable to the classic Seymour Duncan JB bridge and Jazz neck combination. The Octane will have a lot more bottom and mids than the Alnico 2, so like the JB/Jazz combo, you'll probably end up with a much clearer, more trebley sounding pickup in the neck than the bridge (at least when played clean).

It does allow you to use the bridge pup for the distortion sounds, switching to the neck for cleaner sounds.

Being powerful, the Octane should split well, but I'd probably leave the Alnico 2 unsplit, as its lower overall output means that its single coil sound will be very weak in comparison.

There are plenty of guitars out there with a single coil bridge and neck humbucker, or bridge humbucker and single coil neck pickup, which is a bigger overall sound and output difference than your Tonerider combo.

So it all comes down to what you actually want to achieve. If you want to play songs with fairly clean sections interspersed with loud distorted sections, then it would make a good choice. Not quite so good for country twanging!

[McCreed]

Hey dozy.
I might be a bit dozy myself, as I'm only about 5 hours post-op! But I'll offer what I can.

First, there's no technical reason those two TR HB's won't work together. There are certainly ways of balancing them to probably achieve what you want. I will point out the differences between the pair of TR's vs the Dimarzio's (and similarities as best I can tell with the data offered).

The Dimarzio's are both Alnico 5 magnets where the TR's are a A2 neck & A8 bridge which each will have individual tonal characteristics.
The data supplied by TR tells me far more about the tone than whatever-the-hell Dimarzio is trying to express with their own "tone chart". I have no idea what an "output of 290" even means. 290 what?

As for similarities, they both have a slightly brighter neck pickup, and darker bridge pickup. The TR bridge may be a bit hotter than the Dimarzio, but more on that in a minute.

Tonerider (on their website) at least provides DCR and Inductance, which is still only part of the puzzle but is much more helpful IMO. The whole "DCR" thing means "SFA" in telling buyers anything about what a pickup is going to sound like. Unfortunately the marketing gurus have decided this is what buyers need to know... I could go on, but I won't.

In very general terms DCR can be an indicator of "output" and Inductance (measured in Henries) can be indicative of "tone" (think frequencies).
Again, in very general terms lower inductance favour higher frequencies; and higher inductance will favour lower frequencies.

Another factor that most pickup manufacturers don't tell us (for whatever reason -???) is the resonant peak, which is helpful again. All of the above plus magnet type and wire gauge & type all have an effect on tone as well, but all of this still doesn't tell us exactly what our ears are going to hear.

Here's a great article from Bedlam Guitars that covers Inductance in more detail and how it relates to tone. PICKUP INDUCTANCE

I'm sure Simon B will have good advice here as he understands the technical stuff way more than I do.
My grasp on the technical is tentative at best, but I know what I know and mostly know what I don't know...
There, that should instil some confidence!

Uh-oh... drugs are wearing off...


EDIT: Simon beat me to it!

[dozymuppet]

Haha. Well, it's good you're still with us, so there's that.

Thanks both of you. It sounds like I'm not totally crazy then, and kind of on the right track.

And yes, the Joe Duplantier arrangement is pretty similar I guess, but how he describes the intent gave me some clues. He rarely uses the neck pickup, and I found the overall idea intriguing. (I'm also fascinated by the ToM bridge on a tele shape...).

[Simon Barden]

. I have no idea what an "output of 290" even means. 290 what?

They don't state directly, but if you go to the 'Sort:' options, "Output mV" is one of them.

So that's the peak signal voltage (in mV) generated when placed in their comparison rig. Which is one way to compare respective outputs. It's obviously some very repeatable set-up, so maybe the pickup is placed under a set of mechanically driven thin metal rods rather than the pickup fitted to a real guitar.

Because the string amplitude is greater in the neck position than in the bridge position, bridge pickups (if they are selected from the same set) will have a bigger output value than their neck equivalents to make up for the smaller string movement, and hopefully provide comparable outputs when installed. As pickup spacing will vary between guitar models, and string to pickup distance also plays a part in pickup output and tone, any numbers are always going to be indicative rather than 100% accurate.

So just remember that you need to take into account the pickup's intended position as well as the mV output value when thinking about how well the pickup output levels will balance.

[McCreed]

Thanks for the explanation Simon. I was a bit lazy and didn't bother to explore the details of their output number.

I guess I find it frustrating that pickup companies try to quantify the near un-quantifiable (IMO) when it comes to "tone".
I understand how difficult it is to describe sound though, and from a marketing perspective, I suppose they have to come up with something. Which takes me back to the whole DCR thing, and how many people have come to misinterpret it. I was guilty of it too before I knew better.

I like your idea (hypothesis?) of thin metal rods in lieu of strings. I never thought about that. It conjures up all kinds of things in my imagination!