Thanks Simon - interesting.
The section at the ends talks about the offset technique to draw two pieces together in two directions. Is the suggestion do this with the necks to draw them it tightly into the pocket?
It's not normally suggested. Some necks may never get unscrewed in their lives, but others may be on and off quite regularly (especially those vintage style necks with heel-end trussrod adjustment). Offsetting will put more tension on the wood around the screw area, so is more likely to get damaged and the wood threads stripped with several removals and fittings. Just making sure the neck is firmly seated in the pocket and then clamped before drilling is normally enough. Offsetting is good idea if you never plan to undo the joint, but I can see some issues if you are going to undo the joint several times.
Once the guitar is assembled and strung up, you can then back off all four neck screws slightly. You'll probably hear a slight crack as the neck moves and is pulled towards the end of the pocket further by string tension. Then you can re-tighten and re-tune. It may do nothing, but in some instances it can slightly improve the tone and sustain.
I had not seen the offset technique, but I think Simon raises some really good points. I would be reluctant to put that sort of stress on the wood. What also "resonated" with me was Simon's comment about the quality of the screws. I have taken the necks on and off numerous times on my builds and mods for one reason or another. Cheap screws can get really chewed up, so I have been ditching them and using good quality stainless screws instead.
I am also careful about tightening. I will unscrew with a power tool, but I only screw the neck on with a screwdriver. I wax the screw and then drive it until it stops with just two fingers and thumb on the screwdriver. Overtightening a bad screw can lead to a stripped out or broken head. Overtightening a good screw can lead to stripping out the wood.
If you are really interested in tightening up the neck pocket, this guy has a different approach.
I should say that I have not done this, and am not an endorser of the approach. It looks like overkill to me. But passing it on FWIW.
Thanks guys - I've ordered a bunch of replacement stainless steel screws for everything. I wasn't planning to try do anything fancy - best practice is good enough for me.
I put the ferrules in and clamped the neck in to make sure the bridge is still in the right place. The strings run over the pickups okay when they're mounted in the new pick guard so that all seems good. I noticed there is still very small gap (0.5mm) at the front of the neck pocket (I thought I'd fixed that) - should I attempt to fix this?
While I was shopping I also got some gotoh strap buttons and a jack plate... and with that I think the only PB parts left for the guitar are the nut (bone upgrade) and tuners (Grover upgrade).
On the subject of nuts... I bought a couple of Graphtec Tusq XL pre cut nuts with the intention of using one of them this guitar. But comparing it to the nut supplied with the kit the string spacing is different. The XL spacing is the same as a strat/tele (35.05mm). I did a bit of digging around but couldn't find anything that documents what the PB nut spacing is. (I guess I could measure it - duh). I assume this needs to match up with the spacing of the tuners so that the strings travel as straight as possible?
A few things to note.Originally Posted by fender3x
1) The extra screws may be possible to fit on a bass neck, but on a typical guitar neck, the two rear screws are only a few mm from the end of the neck and the angled screws would hit them. Even if they missed, I feel this would create two weak areas of wood at the end of the neck that could be liable to tear out if you hit the end of the neck on something, or just simply with use. So I'd recommend only trying this on a bass neck where the rear screws area decent distance from the end of the neck.
2) For an existing guitar or bass, rather than a new build, you'll already have screw holes in the neck. These will definitely need filling and redrilling if you change the shape of the neck pocket so the neck sits further into the body.
3) He used a kit bass with an unfinished neck. If you are going to add veneer in order to make the pocket so tight that you can raise the body up with the neck as shown, then only do it with a finished neck. Add finish and the neck will be wider and will never fit in the pocket!
4) He used the long edge of the pocket to push the neck up against and added veneer to the short edge. This is fine if the pocket edges are truly parallel and also align with the centre line of the guitar, but this is not always the case. If the pocket is more of a parallelogram shape, then you'll need to get the neck pointing straight down the body, and probably need to fill in both sides of the neck with angled veneer shims. Especially important on an existing guitar/bass where the bridge and pickups are already installed, otherwise you could make it unplayable with the stings running at an angle down the neck.
5) On an existing bass/guitar, if the bridge saddles are already intonated as far back as they will go, then reshaping the neck pocket end so the neck sits further into the body will make the guitar unintonatable without moving the bridge. This may be possible on a top loader, but with string-through bridges or bridges with posts, this is a major fill and redrill exercise with big cosmetic implications. You'll be far better off packing epoxy into the end of the neck cavity (or similar) and leaving the neck where it is.
6) Any neck is already being pulled back into the end of the pocket under string tension with considerable force. Slackening off the neck screw slightly under tension will allow the string tension to move the neck back as far as the neck screws allow. Then re-tighten them. On an electric, you've got a typical total of around 100 pounds/45kg of tension, on a bass, its nearer 200lbs/90kg. Once you've got that much force pulling the neck into the body and you let the screws move as much as possible under that force, then those angled screws really aren't going to be able to do much more at all.
7) If you care about the resale value of your instrument, especially if it's vintage or rare, don't fit the angled screws!
Last edited by Simon Barden; 20-04-2021 at 03:25 PM.
There are US and non-US Fender nut widths and string spacings. The kits normally use non-US spacing hardware, and the Tusq ones you have are probably US spacing which is why there's a difference.
A slight change in string spacing won't affect the tuning pull by any noticeable amount. It's rare enough for a Pit Bull neck to have the tuning holes drilled in a straight line, let alone in exactly the right place to have the strings travel perfectly straight from the nut to the tuners.
The main consideration is whether the nut slot spacing suits the neck. If the E strings don't sit too close to the edge, so that the strings lie on the rounded end of the frets or will be easily pulled/pushed off when you fret a string, or sit too far from the edge of the fretboard, then don't worry about a small difference.
It's up to you. It will be more a visual thing than anything else. Unless you can machine the end of the pocket and the end of the neck on a CNC machine or a complicated router jig (preferable CNC made), getting the curves to match exactly is nigh-on impossible.
I've used chalk on the end of the neck pocket to mark the touching spots on the end of the neck before, and using that method you can get quite close to a match, but still never perfect. It's very easy to just keep going and then you find your neck is 2mm shorter and the neck pocket 2mm longer and you've still got a 0.5mm gap!
This is all I'd do after drilling a proper pilot holes in the neck and clearance holes in the body. My experience has been that the body holes generally need a little enlarging to clear the threads properly.
It will make no sonic difference, and your pickguard and fretboard extension will make this invisible. I'd leave well enough alone, particularly since everything else appears to be in alignment.
I can't tell you how many times I have created some new problem by trying to solve one that was practically invisible.
Thanks everyone - My bit's and bobs arrived today (including the neck screws) so this evening I enlarged the holes in the body and piloted the neck. A few minutes later the neck was bolted up (it's not really bolted though is it?).
I checked the bridge position for a final time before committing to drilling the holes. Then the bridge went on. I even remembered to put in a bridge grounding wire. I checked continuity and all good there.
I couldn't resist slapping on the junky strings from the kit (two of which broke under tension) to see where things were.
The top E and G vibrate in the nut but adding some tension behind the nut seems to fix it so string trees are in order.
The nut feels a little high but I'm not sure how to measure that. I don't think the slots need to be any deeper so I guess I can take a little bit off the bottom - but I want to experiment with the spare Graphtec I have.
Without measuring it, the neck relief looks okay.
The saddle height is maxed out so of course, the action is crazy high and the intonation needs work but not a disaster.
Generally it feels good - the neck as some chunk to it (which I like) and it seems to sustain pretty well. I haven't done the "back the screws off under tension" trick yet. It also passes the "Slow dancing..." test #modernstairway.
I'm not going to fiddle with the setup until the electronics are in so next I'm going to shield the cavities and then start wiring.
#funtimes
Oh by the way - For anyone in the UK, I've been using https://www.charlesguitars.co.uk/ a lot recently. The prices seem good but they also attempt to minimise packaging by not using the manufacture's boxes for small parts like screws and jack plates - nice.
Taking off from the bottom of the nut has exactly the same effect as deepening the nut slots.
But don't do any of that until you've got the neck relief and action sorted. Get the strings sitting just above the 1st fret with a high action, and when you then lower the bridge saddles or reduce the neck relief, there's a strong chance the strings will now buzz on the 1st fret - which means a new nut.
You can set the action with a capo on the first fret, and check for playability, then adjust the nut height. It's a lot easier to cut the nut slots than keep removing the nut and filing the bottom.
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