ColorTone Cherry Finish?

[glenwilliam]

Hey all,
For my ES-1GT build I am contemplating this process:

1. Walnut Timbermate
2. F&W Sanding Sealer
3. ColorTone
4. TruOil

I've read different versions of this throughout the forums - some say no sanding sealer, some say shrinkage of timbermate WILL happen.

Thoughts? Will this give me a nice glossy finish that I desire? I have probably half a tin of nitro clear - should I use that instead and risk not having enough?

Cheers,
Glen

[McCreed]

Hi Glen.

I presume you're intent for the Timbermate is to accentuate the grain?
If that's the case, I'm not sure you'll gain much applying it to veneer. I may be wrong as I've not used it on veneer, but maple is not an open pore timber (like ash or mahogany) so there's no much to "fill". Also, you've probably read repeatedly about how thin the veneer is on these kits, so minimal sanding is advised to avoid sand-through.

Personally I don't use sanding sealer if applying stain. If you're concerned about uneven staining, you're better off using a pre-stain conditioner, sometimes called anti-blotching treatment. This is not the same as sanding sealer.

Sanding sealer can also be used for pore filling to a slight degree, but should not be confused with or considered a grain filler.
If I were grain filling with Timbermate (with ash, mahogany or other open pore timber) I wouldn't use a sanding sealer over the Timbermate.

I used Cherry ColorTone on the ash Tele in the pic below, however the supplier I bought it from sold it "pre-diluted" (my mistake) and it was too light to give the depth I wanted, so I ended up finishing it with U-Beaut Wood Dye (just plain "Red") and used it neat (undiluted). I grain filled the ash with ebony Timbermate, dyed with ColorTone/U-Beaut and then top coated with DIY wipe-on poly.



The PRS-TS1 below, is done with no grain filling, alcohol based aniline dye (mixed by me) and top coated with Tru-Oil.
These two guitars might give you an idea of what some of your products will look like.



FWIW neither guitar had sanding sealer or pre-stain conditioner on them.

[glenwilliam]

Amazing reply, thanks McCreed. Yes I was thinking about accentuating the grain, though after I posted here I did think that it might not be much use to that.

I really like the finishes that you've achieved here. They are pretty much what I want to achieve so perhaps a simple process of ColorTone + TruOil is all I'm after.

Do you think TruOil will yellow the cherry ColorTone? I'd love a vintage cherry look but haven't had much luck finding a 'vintage' stain.

[McCreed]

Here is a pic of the back of PRS-TS-1 which was a mix of red aniline dye powder (in alcohol) and Angelus "brandy". I was going for that vintage cherry vibe. It has Tru Oil over it and I don't think it effected the original colour at all despite the TO having a naturally amber tone to it.



Note: the body is basswood and the neck is mahogany.

Edit to add:
I have noticed the white binding has yellowed more since 2018, but I kind of like it tbh. Gives it a vintage look.

[GregLane]

Hi Glen

I am a true believer in Colortone and Tru-Oil.

I have never used filler on Maple or Basswood, just lots of coats of TruOil.

If you want the learners view of Colortone and Tru-Oil builds, see my build diaries below. All good in the end, learned lots and enjoyed the challenge.
Despite the "dramas", I am extremely happy with the finished products.
Just be patient as you will need a lot of coats of TruOil but it will fill the grain (Not Mahogany or Ash though - they need Timbermate)
Don't hesitate to ask the Forum. There are very experience guys on it always willing to help.

Greg

[Simon Barden]

ColorTone in itself is just another dye, nothing overly special about it. The benefits are that it is a known quantity so you can mix colours (in known ratios as given on the StewMac site), to get a load of intermediate colours. The powders can be mixed with water or alcohol, or used to tint lacquers.

As you have binding on your guitar, avoid alcohol based stain. It will get deep into all the tiny stress cracks in the binding that you can't see. Water-based stain is less penetrating and may sit on the top the larger cracks but can be scraped off.

I used an Indian red water based stain on my ES-1 the first time I did it, which was fine, but my Tru-Oil finish sanded through so I had to strip it right back and stain again. I then used a spirit-based heritage cherry stain and this was the result.



I couldn't get rid of it so I ended up having to paint the binding. The binding cracks are pretty universal across all kits with binding, and you get more on the sharp bends and almost none on the straighter edges.

So I'd go alcohol/spirit based stains for all-wood guitars, and water-based for guitars with bindings.

[McCreed]

As you have binding on your guitar, avoid alcohol based stain. It will get deep into all the tiny stress cracks in the binding that you can't see. Water-based stain is less penetrating and may sit on the top the larger cracks but can be scraped off.

FWIW, I have white binding on that PRS build above and no problem scraping it clean after using alcohol dyes.

I did mask it well and it didn't bleed too badly. Maybe because the top was amber and only the sides/back were red also has something to do with it. When I did the top & sides, it was elevated and laying flat (front up). The amber is less prominent than red, and maybe there was not enough capillary action for the red to go up. Dunno...

We all have different experiences and results.

[Simon Barden]

It may also depend on the quality of the binding material used (different factories, different binding suppliers), or maybe because I'd already scraped the binding once. But there are countless builds on here with stain in the binding cracks. And once it's in there, it's not coming out! Better safe than sorry.

[Simon Barden]

Also, the ES-1 binding is thicker white/black/white black layered binding, whilst McCreed's PRS-style binding looks to be a much thinner single ply binding, so was probably far more flexible and went on without any major/deep stress cracks when bent. Glenwilliam's build is another ES-1, so I'd expect it to be similar to mine.

[GregLane]

I have had no trouble with metho in colour tone on my LP or ES. I found that water brings up too much grain