Fretting help!

[Diggydude]

Hey,

I've been re-fretting an Ag-1 neck with larger, stainless steel frets. Using a radius block from pitbull, I sanded down the fretboard to remove the chips made by removing the frets and in doing so, made the fret slots shallower. I have a fret saw and have been trying to cut the slots deep enough but I'm having trouble getting it right. I have a spare neck I'm testing on but no matter how I try to saw, the frets aren't sitting deep enough, the crown sticking up from the fretboard too much.



I've tried sawing deeper, sawing less and smashing it in with the hammer but it doesn't seem to do much. The neck pictured is my spare, already damaged neck but the result is very similar on the actual neck. What should I do? Am I doing something wrong?

[Simon Barden]

I'd suggest the saw simply isn't wide enough for the tang width the frets have. The width can vary between fret types and you need the right width saw. The tang looks significantly wider than the fret slot in the picture and it obviously doesn't want to go in as you've bent the crown of the test fret over.

[McCreed]

I agree with Simon on the tang/slot width relationship. The slot looks more than deep enough.
I can't tell if the bent crown is a result of trying hammer it into the slot or if it has been deformed by your nippers when cutting off the wire.

Did you measure the old fretwire before ordering the new?
Most manufacturers give all the details like crown width & height; tang depth and width. (the width is usually the distance from point to point of "teeth" on the tang)

This is one reason lots of luthiers avoid stainless steel fret work. It can be very unforgiving compared to nickel.

[Diggydude]

I found measurements for the saw width (.58mm) and the tang width (.6mm), so a .02mm difference. Is that enough to cause issues?

Yeah McCreed I think you're right, I think it was the cutting that caused that, I reckon I should cut parallel to the tang

[Simon Barden]

It shouldn't be an issue, the slot needs to be very slightly smaller. But you really need to measure the saw blade and the tang width rather than read a spec. And if you are twisting the fret by cutting the end off, then you may as well throw that fret away, you can't use it and expect a good result. It need to remain perfectly T-shaped. Are your cutters designed for stainless frets?

[McCreed]

It needs to remain perfectly T-shaped. Are your cutters designed for stainless frets?

Simon makes a good point. If the cutters aren't hard enough, they will squash the wire before it actually cuts it.

Yeah McCreed I think you're right, I think it was the cutting that caused that, I reckon I should cut parallel to the tang

The way I like to cut my fretwire is kind of a three step approach.
When I cut the the fret initially, I cut it slightly longer than needed and cut it parallel to the tang as you said.
In my second step, I cut back the tang so it is recessed within the fretboard. Next I cut the crown to length with the cutters parallel to the fretboard. (hopefully that makes sense)

This is just my method. Some people like the tang flush with the fretboard. I prefer it recessed and then fill the ends of the slots. To each his own.

[Woltz]

What radius is the fret wire bent to and what radius is the fretboard?

Also a lot of people run a triangle file across each fret slot just to take a very tiny amount of material off the corners at the top of the slot.

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[Rodc]

It shouldn't be an issue, the slot needs to be very slightly smaller. But you really need to measure the saw blade and the tang width rather than read a spec. And if you are twisting the fret by cutting the end off, then you may as well throw that fret away, you can't use it and expect a good result. It need to remain perfectly T-shaped. Are your cutters designed for stainless frets?

I found that out the hard way and that was with nickel. There was only one certain way I could cut the frets with good side cutters that wouldn't twist the tang. Would be much harder and more difficult with stainless.
Try different ways of cutting the fret wire with your cutters or even use a Dremel if you have one to cut them with.

[Diggydude]

well the cutters are filed down general nippers so nothing fancy. The wire itself is straight but I've been hammering the frets in with the radius block to bend it as it goes in. Good idea? Bad?

Reading this I'm think maybe I should be working with nickel first? I have enough stainless steel wire but some has been bent like pictured so I probably won't have enough in the end...

[Woltz]

You need stainless steel fretwire to be radiused to the same radius as your fretboard prior to hammering or pressing it in otherwise it's just not going to seat properly and you'll continue fighting it as you have been. Have a look online, there are plenty of ideas for cheap fretwire bending jigs.

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