Hi all. I have built several maple cap guitars and finished by using black to pop grain sand back then colour, clear etc.
My next project is an ash build.
Somewhere on here I saw a green guitar that had a yellow grain pattern that got me thinking.
I would like to have the ash grain yellow and then do a translucent blue using metal cast paint over it. (used this stuff before and it works great)
So to get the yellow grain beneath the blue, should I stain/ dye the body yellow, sand back and then spray the blue to the desired level of colour/translucency?
Or do the yellow, sand back, coat with something (clear/poly/Shellac) and then spray the translucent blue?
I know each way may end with greenish grain but the guitar I saw somewhere in one of these
pages has yellow showing through green so I am thinking there has to be a way to achieve this with out putting myself through the pain of trial and error.
The grain pattern highlight is normally provided using a coloured grain filler (ash is an open-pored wood so needs grain filling).
But whilst yellow and green don't make blue (blue + yellow make green), transparent green over yellow won't leave the yellow unaffected. You'll probably end up with a lighter green instead of yellow.
I'd suggest that you'd stain the body green first using spirit-based dye/stain (as it penetrates the wood a bit further than water-based stain), then use a yellow grain filler on top, sand that back flat so the grain pattern remains filled but the green wood is showing and then clear coat over that. You'll need to grain fill at least twice, probably three times, as the filler shrinks as it dries, and the grain lines in Ash can be very deep. You may need to mix your own yellow stain with a neutral grain filler. The yellow will mix with the green to some extent, so you'll probably end up with a slightly lighter green than you started with.
But that's very basic from first principles and I'm not at all sure just how well that will work in practice, having never done it. Unless anyone here has (and I don't remember seeing any guitars finished like this) you may need to do some experimentation with yellow grain filler over stained green wood, to see just what effect the yellow has on altering the shade of green.
But I can't think of a better way. So I'd stain green, fill yellow, clear coat over the top. If necessary, you can always spray a tinted green lacquer over the top of it all if it's just not working as you planned, to tone things down.
I didn't even think of doing the blue then grain filling after with a yellow.
That could work, a lot of sand throughs and redos I would bet (It's blue with yellow I am aiming for. I didn't want the two to mix and give me green)
Ah, yes I kept reading the first part of your post. Blue and yellow isn't a good mix of colours and it's going to be very hard to not get green.
OK. I'd then probably spray transparent blue first straight on to the wood, then probably a few coats of clear to protect it. Then yellow grain filler (the sprays won't fill in the grain pits). Carefully sand back until the blue is showing again (which is why a couple of coats of clear will help as sanding through the blue tint on its own would be easy, and then clear coat over all of that. A modification of the Gibson TV yellow process with mahogany.
But you may still get some green looking edges where there's thin grain filler over the blue.
Before anything else, you will need to ensure the main parts of the body are as flat as you can get them (excluding the grain dips), so any general undulations, high spots or pits are all levelled so that you need to do minimal sanding of the finish later.
I can't guarantee success, but that would seem the path most likely to get you there, given those colour choices.
Thanks Simon.
Did a heap of reading up last night and the process you describe is exactly what I am finding as the way to do this.
I have found another way using shou Sugi ban technique.
Some one did a build where they burned then wire brushed. Wipe one colour stain, let dry, then wipe on the next and sand back.
Unfortunately they didn't post picks of their work.
I am tempted though to do the burn, wire brush, wipe on blue stain and wipe it off after 30 seconds. This gives black burnt grain and blue that varies from very dark to light to almost white in patches.
Looks very good on some ash telecasters I saw.
I believe they then use wipe on poly to finish but so far I am light on information.
If I went that route, do you think I should put Shellac or sanding sealer on it between staining and wipe on Polly?
They’d both do a similar job. But you need to think about compatibility of finishes, so any sanding sealer needs to be one that won’t react with wipe-on poly. It shouldn’t be an issue, but do check first. Shellac is often used for this purpose by luthiers because it is so compatible.
Never tried any burning, and am not keen on the look, so I can’t help you there. The only downside of staining is that end grain on the sides will absorb more stain than the flat top and rear will and so look much darker. Even on the sides where you have curves you’ll get variations in take-up where more or less end grain is exposed. But if you are going for variations in stain depth anyway, then it will look part of that to a large extent. It’s the reason why some people spray shellac on first and then stain the shellac, as you get far less colour variation (though you may as well just spray on a tinted lacquer for a similar effect IMO).
Why not build two guitars and try blue/yellow on one and burning on another?
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