Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: Need help!

  1. #11
    GAStronomist Simon Barden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Posts
    10,547
    There are five basic terms (to start with at least) in electrics/electronics and they all play a role in an electric guitar or bass:

    Voltage
    Current
    Resistance (Impedance)
    Capacitance
    Inductance

    Voltage (V), current(I) and resistance(R) for DC voltages are all tied together in a neat little equation called Ohm's law. V=IxR or I=V/R or R=V/I.

    Resistance is a basic property of a material and indicates how well current (the movement of electric charge) will flow through that material. Most metals have a low resistance and conduct electricity well (though some still conduct electricity a bit better than others). So these metals are called conductors. Most plastics, wood and stone have a very high resistance indeed and won't conduct electricity (unless there is a very large voltage indeed placed across them) so these are called insulators. In between these two extremes are materials that will pass electricity, but not as readily or as much as a conductor will, and these are called resistors. When you move away from basic DC (direct current) circuits and into AC (alternating current circuits - basically any circuit that the voltage varies over time), the trem resistance is replaced with 'impedance' as the resistance value will depend of the frequency of the signal. So a piece of wire will have a different resistance value for a 10kHz signal compared to a 10MHz signal.


    Voltage is a measure of the difference in electrical 'potential' across a circuit. You can compare it to a hydroelectric dam. When water is the same level both sides of the dam, there is no height difference to force water through the turbines and generate electricity. When there is no voltage present across a circuit, there is nothing to make any current flow, so nothing happens. When the dam is half full, there is now enough water pressure to make water flow through the turbine and generate some electricity, but not enough as when the dam is full, so there's maximum pressure available and the turbines produce their full power. So voltage is akin to the height difference between two sides of the dam (and indeed an older term for 'voltage' was 'pressure').

    Current is a measure of how much electricity is flowing through an object, be it a conductor or resistor. The amount of current is always dependent on the voltage across that object and its resistance (and hence Ohm's law) We can't really control current directly, so we normally control it by adjusting the voltage or resistance of a circuit. So the primary form of Ohms law is really I=V/R, (though I more easily remember V=IxR).

    Resistors are very useful, because in electronics, we normally want to limit or control the amount of current flowing through a circuit, or for a given current, control the voltage at a particular point in the circuit. So you get a huge range availble of fixed resistors, and also a wide number of potentiometers, which can be used as either 'variable resistors' (as in passive guitar tone controls) or as 'potential dividers', such as when used as guitar volume controls.

    Going back to the dam analogy, the pipe the water passes through to get to the turbine can be compared to a conductor or low-value resistor/ A small pipe won't pass much water through it compared with a large pipe and can be said to have a relatively high resistance compared to the bigger pipe. The volume of water passing through the pipe is dependent of both the size of the pipe (smaller = more resistance) and the height of the water in the dam (more water = more voltage). So to increase the water flow (current) in the pipe we can either increase the height of the water in the dam (= more voltage), increase the size of the pipe (= lower resistance), or add a bit more water and a bit larger pipe size. Just like in electronics, we don't normally want all the water flowing out of the dam at once, so we pick the right resistance/pipe size to give us a good nominal water/current flow to drive the turbine (relevant part of the circuit).

    A capacitor is a device for both storing electric charge, and also allowing an alternating current/AC (e.g. audio signal) to pass through it whilst blocking any direct current (DC) e.g. battery voltage, to pass through it. E.g. Large value capacitors are used in most power supplies providing a DC output, in order to store energy that's used when the AC input supply is at or near the zero voltage part of its cycle. Guitar amps and FX pedals will generally have one or more 'DC blocking' capacitors in the audio circuit to prevent and battery voltage or induced DC voltage from affecting the audio signal and giving a 'DC offset'. A DC offset can cause a speaker to have the wrong centre point, so that instead of vibrating back and forth as normal, it starts out near one end of its design travel length, and the normal audio vibrations cause the speaker to exceed its design travel, and can cause nasty audio distortion and speaker burnout. Capacitors basically work on an 'electrostatic' principle.

    Capacitors can also act as simple filters on their own e.g. the tone control capacitor in your guitar when set to maximum roll-off, will pass the higher frequencies from the guitar signal to ground, but not the low ones, which is why the sound is muddy. The smaller the capacitance value, the higher the frequency point, above which the capacitor passes the signal, is.

    Inductors work on electromagnetic induction and are basically coils of wire. By simply forming a wire into a coil, you turn it into an inductor, the more coils you have, the bigger the inductance will be. Put two coils together in the right way, and you get a transformer. Or wrap loads of turns of a thin wire around a former, add a magnet or two and you get a guitar pickup.

    Resistance, capacitance and inductance are generally properties that all electrical items have, some on purpose and some dependent on the installation. So an inductor will also have a small amount of capacitance and some resistance.

    Putting together resistance, capacitance and inductance in various combinations, you get different filter circuits, which can be low pass, high pass, band pass (or resonant versions of those).

    The combination of a guitar pickup (with inductance, resistance and some capacitance), along with the resistance of the volume pot and the resistance+capacitor of tone circuit for a resonant low-pass filter, which helps shapes the sound of your pickup.

    So a brief and very sketchy introduction to some of the basic terms, which are probably still confusing. Really best to look for a basic book on electronics. You won't need it all (and the maths for the frequency response circuits of capacitors and inductors gets complicated quickly as imaginary numbers are used), but I learnt this stuff ages ago, so really can't recommend a good basic book, but maybe others might. It really is useful, though not strictly necessary if you just follow wiring diagrams, in understanding how guitars and basses work and in fault-finding on them. Know the basics, and watching the YouTube tutorials on guitar filter circuits will make far more sense.

  2. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    54
    A tip is to use something to hold one part. Those little modellers rigs Jaycar and electronic stores sell with alligator clips at the end of arms. I sit my pots bakwards in the guitar body to solder all the leads in = put a rag around base to avoid solder scorches on your finish! Needle nose pliers or hemostats - which is the little spring loaded aluminium clip thingys to protect sensitive components from heat. Like your fingers.
    Last edited by Dacious; 24-08-2020 at 08:51 AM.

  3. #13
    GAStronomist Simon Barden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Posts
    10,547
    The more you solder, the better you get at it. It really does pay to practice soldering on spare or old components. My first post-uni job was a few months modifying populated circuit boards, so I got paid to learn to solder pretty well.

    But poor close-up eyesight doesn't help. I desperately need new close-up glasses as the focus of my current ones is now too far away so I have to solder at 40cm away, not a more ideal (for me) 15cm. I've tried a pair of adjustable focus glasses, but they are terrible. The in-focus field width is so small and the depth of focus is so tiny that they are headache-inducing and only to be used for short periods when I'm in direst need.

  4. #14
    Overlord of Music McCreed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    AUS
    Posts
    3,552
    +1 on the "third hand" devices. It will make your jobs sooooo much easier.

    And I can relate to the vision imparement too. I look like a total geek when doing soldering or any up-close work.
    I use either a magnifying visor (whilst wearing my regular multi-focal glasses) or I'll put on a pair of magnifying glasses (from the chemist) in front of my regular glasses. It's quite a look!
    Especially if I add the LED headlamp to the ensemble! If my wife walks into the shed whilst I'm dawning these accoutrements, she'll just look at me and just shake her head... backing out slowly...
    Making the world a better place; one guitar at a time...

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    54
    The thing I forgot to mention re: soldering is you are not sticking things together with hot solder. That won't work. You are heating both bits so the solder flows onto them - as it solidifies, it brazes the surfaces together.

    When trying to solder something like a wire to the back of a pot casing, scrape a small section of the rim of the back of the pot to get the plating off - it's much easier to heat than the flat bit on the back. Tin it and the wire with solder, then heat it with the tip until the solder remelts. Then apply the tinned wire, and a dab more solder on top. You will be amazed at how well it solders, and you won't melt the insulation on even the scuzziest wire. Heat the big bit first. If it looks like volcanic elephant snot, clean it off with your solder sucker or braided wick and go again. Too much solder risks bridging to adjacent components. if you
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tools_Header_Joints.jpg 
Views:	140 
Size:	60.5 KB 
ID:	37064

    in this pic, what they refer to as 'wetting' is what I call tinning - getting a layer of solder on the join point. Soldering to PCBs is a mofo - have to be careful and use low watrage because if you cook the traces, they lift from the board.

    I love my Marshall, hate the PCB! Changed all the 35 yo caps and some of the switching diodes on this board - the traces are buried so deep it's hard to cleanly solder them. Not a job for the feint hearted.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200824_102854.jpg 
Views:	131 
Size:	558.5 KB 
ID:	37065

    I started out as a guy who thought smoke ran around in wires and I still hate reading schematics as much as I hated algebra in high school, but I have got to the stage where I can bias amps, diagnose faults and have built two Tweed Deluxes and resurrected a 68 Fender Vibrochamp husk - cabinet, speaker and transformers, no tube sockets and half the components gone off the tagboard. So there's hope for anyone.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20170907_132815 (1).jpg 
Views:	154 
Size:	230.2 KB 
ID:	37066
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20170907_132228.jpg 
Views:	131 
Size:	342.3 KB 
ID:	37068

    Here 'tis cleaned up and working.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20180208_100307.jpg 
Views:	137 
Size:	300.7 KB 
ID:	37067
    Last edited by Dacious; 24-08-2020 at 08:55 AM.

  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1
    That’s a good picture of different errors in soldering. A good way to practice is to buy a bag of cheap resistors and some perfboard (for pcb) and terminal strips (for point to point) and go for it.

    Question on the Marshall pcb’s. Are they not thru-hole plated?

  7. #17
    Wow. Thanks guys. Much food for thought. Some soldering practice is nigh.

  8. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    54
    Depends on the generation. The 83 generation of PCB is a double layer board has the glass board in two layers around the copper trace. It's actually very durable, hanging off the pots is a weak point, it's wise to touch up the mounting tabs whenever it's apart.
    But it was never designed with maintenance in mind. There's tons of these around still because the tube sockets are not mounted to the board and the separate heater wires which carry significant current as traces in the later stuff are a weak point.

    Newer boards like in DSLs are single layer and through-plated. They're more flexible and the traces may crack easily.

    Fender Hotrod and Blues Deluxes are pretty dodgy for this.
    Last edited by Dacious; 24-08-2020 at 08:24 PM.

  9. #19
    GAStronomist DrNomis_44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Darwin,NT Australia
    Posts
    5,484
    Nothing beats a good eyelet or turret board for amp-serviceability, my old mid-70's Fender Super Twin amp uses three eyelet boards to mount most of the components on, the great thing about eyelet boards is that if you have to de-solder a faulty component, you just use the soldering-iron to melt the solder in the eyelets with the board in the amp, no need to remove it like you do with an etched-copper circuit board, or keep flipping it upside-down to gain access to the solder joints.

  10. #20
    Overlord of Music fender3x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Miami, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,199
    Aside from some solder and some resin to help it flow, these are the items that have been most helpful to me. Total cost of all items is around $40 US, so not expensive. You can certainly spend more and get better stuff, but I have used these items for pretty much everything I have soldered except plumbing fixtures ;-)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	soldering.jpg 
Views:	141 
Size:	45.0 KB 
ID:	37142

    First item is a cheap soldering station that. Nice to have one that is adjustable from 20-50w. Second item is a cheap 3rd hand. I actually have two, and often use both. A cheap set of "precision" pliers. My set was about $7. Precision does not mean expensive it just means small. A magnifying visor. I tell myself this is not because of my aging eyesight. It's because some of this stuff is small.

    I forgot at least one other thing that should be part of your kit...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	stripper.jpg 
Views:	140 
Size:	73.9 KB 
ID:	37143

    ...a wire stripping tool. You can do pretty much any soldering a guitar requires with these few items.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •