Lockers - Do We LIke 'Em ?

[GregLane]

I am planning a new build of an ES?? and am interested whether you have a theory about locking machine heads.

I recently read about a theory that because there are so few turns on lockers that they break string easily, and that the strings are not imparting as much tone back into the guitar.

I won't know about lockers till end of the week when I do the final fit of my ST-1A on which I am fitting lockers.

[Simon Barden]

IMO there really is no benefit to locking tuners on a non-trem guitar except for (sometimes) making string changing a few seconds quicker. All the real benefit is on non-locking trem-equipped guitars.

If the tuners are made well, then they won't break strings. I've had both locking and non-locking tuners with sharp edges to the post holes that broke strings until I sanded the sharp edges off. After that they were fine.

The extra string turns on non-locking tuners do take some tension off the string where it goes through the post hole, but as long as the edges of the hole are smooth, there really isn't an issue. A few minutes work with a round needle file and some fine grit sandpaper and you should be able to cure even the roughest edges on a set of tuners. It's certainly worth smoothing over the edges of the locking pin with some sandpaper as they can also be a bit rough.

I haven't noticed any difference between locking and non-locking tuners on tone. Locking tuners will generally be heavier than non-locking, so you generally aren't comparing like-for-like, as extra mass at the headstock is something that (in theory) can also alter the tone of the guitar. But I really can't see how a few extra turns of string changes the tone. You've got the same string tension pulling in the post with both types.

One thing that can affect the tone (slightly) is the string break angle. On non-locking tuners, with a typical 3-turn wrap, the string is lower down the post where it leaves the tuner than on a locking tuner with the post hole at the same height, so its break-angle will be a bit greater. So with locking tuners, you want to be careful that you don't buy a set where the post hole is too high up the shaft. Worth looking at the dimension drawings. Height adjustable post tuners, or selecting individual tuners from a staggered height collection are an option if your headstock hasn't already got a decent break angle itself (e.g most Fender styles) and the top of the headstock isn't that far below the top of the nut.

All the time you've got a near constant tension on the string, a non-locking tuner will hold the string in place just as well as a locking tuner. It's only when you add in a trem and you take a lot, if not all, the tension off the string that the lack of multiple turns on a locking tuner is of benefit.

With a standard tuner, the multiple turns around the tuner become loose, the string shrinks slightly as the tension is reduced (just think of the string as a spring) and the wraps lose their previous position. When the trem is released and the strings come back to pitch, then the wraps can end up in a slightly different relative position and the strings then go out of tune.

With a locking tuner, you should only have 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn at most around the post, so you've no string against string friction to worry about, so the string goes back to the previous tension and (hopefully) stays in tune. But a badly cut nut is still the main point of most tuning issues.

[McCreed]

EDIT: I got beaten by "Quick-Draw Barden"! But Simon elaborated more than me. We at least share a similar view!

I may very well get harangued for this, but...

My personal opinion is the single advantage of locking tuners is quicker string changes.
I don't believe they have any effect on tone or sustain.

I think a broad misconception is that they provide more stable tuning.
IMO a string that is properly wound on a tuner post will be equally stable under tension. And this even includes with a vintage-style vibrato. A guitar with a vibrato can have very stable tuning if properly set up and adequately lubricated.
Most tuning issues with a vibrato (or non-vibrato) are a result of friction points like string trees, sticky or poorly cut nut slots and saddles. Not strings slipping on tuner posts or tuner posts "unwinding". (that's a whole other topic for another day)

I'm not anti-locking tuners. I own some, but I don't know they are necessarily an upgrade or a necessary upgrade.

OK, let the flogging begin!

[GregLane]

Hey guys thanks for the quick detailed replies.
You have certainly confirmed that I did the right upgrades on my ST. I want it with tremolo bar to play a heap of The Shadows stuff I have been working on. I have got the lockers, a Babicz bridge with the rollers, I have even put roller trees. Everything I need except talent. hi hi

As far as the proposed ES is concerned I will upgrade the pups as already discussed but at the moment thinking of leaving tuning machines and bridge as a future upgrade a fret seeing how successful the ES will be.

[Sonic Mountain]

IMO they make string changes and setup a lot less painful. I haven't had any issue with them causing breakages and discussion about tone beyond pickups/electronics and maaaaybe bridge and nut materials is pointless in the context of an amplified electric guitar.

The grover minis are also very nice to actually tune up with. They don't stick or bind and fine adjustment is easy and stable. They just 'feel' better than the stock kit ones.