My First Build: Which Red Is The Best Red?

[JohnathanL]

No point saving that 12 year old until it's 17!

Good call! Haha! Cheers

[JohnathanL]

Scotch first.
Guitar kit second.
Keep the lego for a backup project. You will need something while waiting for paint and finishes to dry.

It's only logical.

[wazkelly]

Just catching up on a few threads and tripped over this one.

I have done a couple of dark red builds that can be found in my signature where I used a mixture of the diluted cherry colortone which on its own was more in the shade of pink than red and blended that with the darkest almost blood coloured fountain pen ink.

The J Bass is Ash which tends to have a slight pink hue to begin with whilst the ES was supposed to be Basswood with a maple veneer top that ended up being sanded off.

Same stain mix used on both, just a couple more stain coats on the ES to make colour darker.

Only downside with using water based stain or dye is that if applied too wet the timber may swell and rehydrate any water based grain filler (timbermate) which once dried shrinks back leaving behind grain contours as can be seen on the J Bass. Left it that way as I thought it added character and helped to provide a 3D grain fill effect.

Leather dye has been successfully used by a few forum members in the past and you might be able to find a closer colour match without having to mix up your own brew.

Very hard to buy exact colour you want and then have timber behave to deliver the expected outcome and wish you luck on your adventures.

Cheers, Waz


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[JohnathanL]

Just catching up on a few threads and tripped over this one.

I have done a couple of dark red builds that can be found in my signature where I used a mixture of the diluted cherry colortone which on its own was more in the shade of pink than red and blended that with the darkest almost blood coloured fountain pen ink.

The J Bass is Ash which tends to have a slight pink hue to begin with whilst the ES was supposed to be Basswood with a maple veneer top that ended up being sanded off.

Same stain mix used on both, just a couple more stain coats on the ES to make colour darker.

Only downside with using water based stain or dye is that if applied too wet the timber may swell and rehydrate any water based grain filler (timbermate) which once dried shrinks back leaving behind grain contours as can be seen on the J Bass. Left it that way as I thought it added character and helped to provide a 3D grain fill effect.

Leather dye has been successfully used by a few forum members in the past and you might be able to find a closer colour match without having to mix up your own brew.

Very hard to buy exact colour you want and then have timber behave to deliver the expected outcome and wish you luck on your adventures.

Cheers, Waz


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Cheers for that man! Makes sense and yes, in fact, I am using timbermate! Do you have an recs in terms of leather dye? Any tips for application or would you simply apply it in the same fashion as the water based dyes?

[wazkelly]

Hi Buddy, never used leather dyes and unsure of their properties but the Angelus brand seems to crop up in the odd build thread from time to time.

Ideally something spirit based shouldn't rehydrate timbermate and that makes applying the stain much easier.

If water based the rag being used to apply stain only needs to be just damp and not soaking wet otherwise you will have some dramas with the timbermate partially dissolving. Ok if it is being used to pop grain as multiple top coats will eventually act as a filler too, it just takes longer. If being used to create a dead flat surface more care will be required when applying initial stain coats.

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[JohnathanL]

Hi Buddy, never used leather dyes and unsure of their properties but the Angelus brand seems to crop up in the odd build thread from time to time.

Ideally something spirit based shouldn't rehydrate timbermate and that makes applying the stain much easier.

If water based the rag being used to apply stain only needs to be just damp and not soaking wet otherwise you will have some dramas with the timbermate partially dissolving. Ok if it is being used to pop grain as multiple top coats will eventually act as a filler too, it just takes longer. If being used to create a dead flat surface more care will be required when applying initial stain coats.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Gotcha. I've actually gone ahead and purchased a red Angelus dye with a black Feast Watson dye for the headstock. I want to cut the Gibson headstock but I don't have the facilities so I figured I'll colour it first then shape it in the future when I find someone who is willing to do it for me. Any reservations about that?

Sidebar, if i'm looking to darken the final color on the guitar, should I stain black first, sand back then dye red or should I just mix the dyes (black+red) and stain multiple layers?

[McCreed]

Sidebar, if i'm looking to darken the final color on the guitar, should I stain black first, sand back then dye red or should I just mix the dyes (black+red) and stain multiple layers?

You won't be able to mix those two products.
The Angelus Leather Dye is alcohol-based (and work really well btw) the Feast Watson is an oil-based stain.
Two different solvents and two different pigments used in each of them. They won't mix.

I have used the Angelus alcohol-based dyes and mixed them with powdered aniline dye which is first dissolved in alcohol with no problems. The Angelus dyes are essentially the same thing but in a liquid form instead of a powder.

This is my PRS-1TS which I used those dyes on:

[JohnathanL]

You won't be able to mix those two products.
The Angelus Leather Dye is alcohol-based (and work really well btw) the Feast Watson is an oil-based stain.
Two different solvents and two different pigments used in each of them. They won't mix.

I have used the Angelus alcohol-based dyes and mixed them with powdered aniline dye which is first dissolved in alcohol with no problems. The Angelus dyes are essentially the same thing but in a liquid form instead of a powder.

This is my PRS-1TS which I used those dyes on:

Gotcahaaaaa! So if I was going for something darker with what I've got at the moment, should I do a black dye, sand back then hit it with the red? Or would that not work either. :/

[Simon Barden]

It really is easy to cut a headstock shape out using a coping saw and some files and sandpaper (a Dremel drum sander is also useful). It's a lot of work to add finish to the end of the headstock at a later date. You can even print out a paper template and stick it on as a guide if you don't feel up to hand drawing it.

Be bold and have a go.

[JohnathanL]

It really is easy to cut a headstock shape out using a coping saw and some files and sandpaper (a Dremel drum sander is also useful). It's a lot of work to add finish to the end of the headstock at a later date. You can even print out a paper template and stick it on as a guide if you don't feel up to hand drawing it.

Be bold and have a go.

You know what, you're right. I will give it a shot. Any minor bumps or errors should only serve to enahnce this guitar's character. It is hand made after all! I'll get my hands on one of those and give it a shot.

Update. Sanding is done and timbermate is on. Will sand down then add some progress shots.