My first build: DTL-1

[McCreed]

...OTOH it looks like I can pick up a ready-made one for about a tenner so it might not be worth the effort? -- eg. this one on eBay.

That's a good price, and less effort! I say spend the doe.
Once you acquire these tools, you'll be amazed how much you will use them. IMO, tools are always a good investment.

[gpjt]

Thanks to everyone for the help!

So I've put together a combined list based on the PBG instructions and the advice in this thread so far:

• File or fine rasp
• Sandpaper <80-120-240-400-600-800-1200-2000>
• Steel wool (0000 grade)
• Coping saw
• Electric Drill
• Drill bits, 1mm, 1.5mm, 2mm, and 3mm
• G Clamps
• Screw drivers, both Phillips (sizes small 0 med 1 and large 2) and flat head
• Long straightedges (600mm and 300mm rules) and tape measure
• Soldering iron
• Electronic solder
• Clean rags
• Pencil
• Eye protection
• Flat sanding block
• Notched straight edge
• Fret file or profiling tool
• Level to tape sandpaper to for leveling frets, or alternatively a 12" radius sanding block
• Something for polishing frets eg. micromesh

If I can get them cheaply (or "free" as part of a kit that contains necessary stuff, it might be worth getting a fret rocker or nut files.

Lots of standard DIY stuff there, so it's over to eBay for the rest...

[gpjt]

So I won't list the bog-standard stuff that I'm buying because I'm sure no-one needs to know where I'm buying sandpaper :-)

But here are some of the more guitar-specific things I've found, linked to in case anyone else in the UK finds them useful:

• A notched straight edge, able to handle all normal scales.
• A 12" radius sanding block
• A fret polishing kit with appropriate sandpaper, micromesh and so on for using after shaping the frets.

Shaping/crowning the frets has turned out to be a deeper topic than I realised -- Simon Barden hinted at this in his post on the previous page, and I found that this video from StewMac clarified a few things for me nicely (though their summary that the best tool is their one that costs over US$100 made me whimper a bit). Anyway, what I've written below is how I understand things from that video and from reading around a bit, but if any experts want to correct me I'd be very glad to know what I've got wrong! (In particular I bet there's some terminology I'm missing...)

The regulars on this forum won't need reminding of this, but for fellow newbies: there are two main kinds of tools for shaping frets. The goal is to make a rounded shape in cross-section so that there's a nice clear point in the middle of the fret where the string is in contact. so that you get good intonation -- the string should be stopped right in the middle of the fret wire.

One kind of tool is basically a normal flat file (or sometimes a tool with a triangular cross-section, with files on each side) and you file across the fret. The other is some kind of tool with a notch in it, the notch being designed to have the right cross-section for a fret to have, and abrasive on its sides; you fit it over the fret and move it back and forth a few times.

The advantage of the flat file is that you have complete control over the shape of the frets so you can shape them nicely. The disadvantage is that you have complete control over the shape of the frets, which if you're a beginner sounds like it could go horribly wrong.

The advantage of the notched tools is that the shape is "dialed in" -- you just rub it over the fret and it shapes it to the shape of the notch, which is already a sensible shape. The disadvantage, which (if I'm understanding him correctly) Simon was talking about in his previous post, is that if the fret wire is too flat -- that is, not very proud from the fretboard -- then the notch will be too deep, and you won't be shaping the fret properly -- nothing will be abrading the top. So you need to get the right size for your frets.

Here are some examples that I've found:

• A flat file that comes with a fret rocker and a few other bits and bobs
• A three-edged file, with blunt edges to avoid damaging the fretboard when you use it.
• A notched file -- note that it comes in three different sizes, which I think must be for different sizes of fret wire (any experts want to chime in?)
• A fancier notched file -- also available in different sizes, and the seller also has a different tool where you can fit files with different kinds of notches.

TBH I'm unsure what kind to get. I must admit that I'm very tempted by the last one -- not only does it come with the sandpaper and protector, but also I'm a complete sucker for the whole "artisanally made in our workshop from English oak" thing ;-) But then I'd need to get the right size -- are the PBG fret wires 2, 2.5 or 3mm?

[gpjt]

Oh, and one more question -- is it worth getting nut files like these? Simon said earlier that good nut files are a sensible investment if you're planning of making multiple guitars, which makes me think that good ones are expensive. The fact that these cost GBP3.69 for a set of 13 makes me think that either they're crap that's not worth wasting money on, or that they're a completely different kind of tool and I've got confused...

[Simon Barden]

For the PBG kits, the 2.5mm notched fret file is perfect. In fact it 2.5mm will be fine for almost all guitars unless they have vintage frets (where 2mm is better) or extra wide frets (where 3mm is better). I have a 2.5mm one of the fancy notched files and a set of the other files but with a proper handle https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fret-Crow....c100008.m2219

There really isn't any difference between them in term of operation or effectiveness.

But for the slightly wider frets, and any stainless steel ones, I find I use this file first https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and then finish off with the slightly finer diamond files. despite being diamond, they don't work well on stainless frets, whilst that Amazon file makes them only about 2x the effort of normal steel frets, not 10x.

I'm going to get one of the triangular files as well.

P240 grit Wet and Dry is my most used paper for polishing the frets. Sanding the frets level leaves lots of cross-fret scratches. Unless these are removed, the frets will feel terrible and very 'scratchy'. You can drag an off-cut from a top E across each fret. If the scratches haven't gone you'll feel it catch. Once it doesn't, you can then move up the grits and then onto the Micromesh. I try and use the same number of sanding strokes per fret, in order to keep the fret heights the same. So maybe 50-100 of the P240 depending on how deep the scratches were (using a diamond levelling file leaves deeper scratches than P240 on a radius block), then 20 strokes of the other grits.

[gpjt]

Thanks, Simon! I think I'll go for the fancy-looking notched file in 2.5mm, then.

I'd love to hear what you think of the nut files I linked in my second post, BTW.

[edit] third post, I mean -- the one immediately before yours.

[king casey]

If I can get them cheaply (or "free" as part of a kit that contains necessary stuff, it might be worth getting a fret rocker or nut files.

Unless you insist on spending for gear, otherwise...

These do the job just as well (I keep all 3 in a plastic bag)


cheers, Mark.

[Simon Barden]

Those 'nut' files are apparently just repurposed welding gear cleaning rods. You'd really need to double check the sizes with digital calipers (something else for the list if you haven't got any as I now use mine for millions of things). They won't last long - well, the thin ones won't - but they are better than nothing and may do a couple of nuts. They are also not quite the right size for some strings.

0.3 = 0.012"
0.4 = 0.016"
0.5 =0.020"
0.6 = 0.024"
0.7 = 0.028"
0.8 = 0.031"
0.9 = 0.035"
1.0 = 0.039"
1.1 = 0.043"
1.2 = 0.047"
1.4 = 0.055"

I've rounded the figures to 3 decimal places and there will undoubtedly some variation in the actual size of the product. So some slots will be a bit bigger than ideal, and some slots will be slightly narrower than wanted unless you sand the slot wider or step up a file size. But even a pro nut file set is often a bit of a compromise dependent on your chosen string gauge.

A small excess of slot width doesn't matter. What you really don't want is the slot too small, so that the string sticks in it. You also don't want the slot to be too wide, so that it can vibrate from side to side and buzz. So the same width slot as the string size or just slightly larger is ideal.

If you went for a set of 0.009"s, then the top E slot would be 0.012" wide, which as a percentage is significantly wider than the string. And you'd use the same file for the B string, which would be just right. But change to .0010"s and the top E slot would be closer, whilst a 0.013" B would either be in a wide 0.016" slot, or you'd have to try and widen a 0.012" slot with sandpaper (being careful not to deepen it at the same time).

So you make more work for yourself, but you offset that fact by the fact they are very cheap.

I'm really surprised that you can't get a cheap set of proper nut files these days. Maybe not the demand for them based on the price of current sets, but if they were £10-£15, then I'm sure a lot of guitarists would get them (and there are a lot of guitarists).

[McCreed]

Well you've certainly generated a comprehensive list of tools there! And obviously been doing you homework too!

Here's my comments on some of the tools:
Level/levelling bar/radiused sanding block -
I think it was a good choice going with the radiused sanding block for your first job. However I also think that you will eventually you will graduate to a levelling bar, presuming you continue on this DIY journey.
If you get to that point, I recommend a proper levelling bar vs a spirit level. a good levelling bar is about 500% heavier than an aluminium spirit level so the weight of the bar does [most of] the work, not downward pressure from your arm.

D'oh! Simon beat me to it on this one!

Nut file set shown - Those are actually tip cleaners for welding torches being sold as "nut files". Whilst I've never used then, I'm still inclined to get purpose-made nut files. I posted a link to set in another thread recently which I will try to find again. I think they were under 100GBP with shipping from Japan.

edit to add:
I've cut & pasted my previous post re: nut files -

I use Uo-Chikyu (Hiroshima)(Made In Japan) and they're excellent. You can get a .010" to .046" set for 70 USD (approx 54GBP). That is without shipping & VAT, but I'd bet it still falls well below 120GBP.

Uo-Chikyu by Hiroshima Nut Files

With a 10-46 set you can comfortably do nuts to suit up to a .052 gauge set of strings (after learning proper technique).

Even if this TL kit is the only one you ever build, presumably you have other guitars, and with owning your own nut files, you can greatly improve their playability with proper nut action. Most factory nut set-ups are done on the conservative side to minimise possible buzz issues, not necessarily optimum playability.

Just my 2 cents. (that's 1.1 cents in GBP )

[Simon Barden]

I think that a radius block is better than a levelling bar, as you can't guarantee with a levelling bar that you are taking the same amount off the frets all over their length(or should that be width?). I re-did a board that I'd previously done with a levelling file, and found that the sides of the frets were a lot lower than the middle. This was down to the person who had originally replaced the frets on this neck, but the result was that the frets had the wrong radius for the board.