Greg's First Build - LP-1MQ #151

[wazkelly]

Hi Greg, that natural finish on the Mahogany looks great.

For a Dark Wine Red colour were you chasing something like this?



This was achieved with mixing some Color Tone Cherry Red with a deep red fountain pen ink. There are plenty of fountain pen inks to be found on eBay if you go down that path as the supplier I used seems to have gone out of business.

[GregLane]

Thanks waz and Stan for you comments.

waz your red looks close to my mental image. I would be happy with it. I have found the ink is still available on the web. I have a supply of colortone which I will play with but know I have a backup with the ink.

Hey Stan - Carn the Cats. Next year.

[wazkelly]

Cheers Greg. The Color Tone Cherry Red I used was watered down rubbish from the DIY Guitars closing down sale and on its own looked way too dull and washed out. Hopefully you have ended up with the full strength stuff.

[GregLane]

Yep! All the way from the USA.
Do you have any idea what the dilution ratio would be for a rich red?
The bottle says it's 2 fl.oz will make is 2 quarts as the default mix. That is one in 32 (1/32) with my maths.
My plan would to mix it a bit richer and slowly dilute it till I find a good colour. Not a quart though.hihi

[GregLane]

Waz I just saw you were talking about cherry red. There is a good picture of mahogany red on the DIY web site. It is closer to what I am aiming at so will play with the mix. Difficult to find any useful ratios on the web.

http://www.diyguitars.com.au/wp-cont...rmfinished.jpg

[Simon Barden]

I wouldn't go by the colour of the watered-down dye as indicating the final colour on the guitar. Remember that you can simply add more of the colour on to the guitar by staining again after each previous application has dried. It's far easier to get the colour level you want by doing it in stages, rather than all in one go.

Also note that US and Imperial Fluid oz. measurements are different, so whilst the 1:32 ratio you worked out is correct (as the bottle will be talking about US measurement values), if you use a jug marked only in imperial fluid oz. measurements for the water (e.g. add 2 imperial pints to the 2 oz bottle contents), you'll get the wrong mix ratio. You'll be fine if you use simply measure out a 1:32 ratio using the same measurement units each time.

[GregLane]

Thanks Simon
Does that mean you think that the 1/32 mix with multiple coats would be the way to go.
Earlier in my diary I mentioned that I am going to try to pop the grain a bit extra by putting on a coat and wiping off after half an hour. First two coats.
Of course this is all theory for me at the moment being my first build. But chipping away slowly and will do plenty of testing.

[wazkelly]

Hi Greg, just a few tips to keep things really simple.

The color tone swatch colours are not a good true representation as I also ordered their mahogany and it turned out more dark brown than red and ended up gifting that along with some unused DT to Andy for his SGD612.

Other than the EX-1 all my other builds have had a fair amount of experimentation involved and best to have a decent sized piece of scrap timber to do some test samples on.

How I did this was to purchase a few packets of the cheapest thin paint brushes, the type that kids use and come in a pack of about 10 or 12 at $2 shops for about that or less per pack. Also bought several syringes from Chemist Warehouse plus a few eye droppers, and at Woolworths they have these neat small round shaped containers that come 8 in a pack for $2.50 per pack or 3 for $6.00 which is better value and you end up with 24 of them. Here is a shot to help you find them in the store...

Next is to label spots on the timber for the different samples - I started off with one drop of full strength and then moved on to samples with a drop of water added and some of the ratios were 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, 1:4, 1:5, 2:1, 2:3, 2:5 and so on, and if blending different colours as I did on the Red Bass just repeat the process and allow things to dry. A few hours later, or maybe next day, closely inspect the samples in a good light, not direct sunlight as that can wash things out too much, to see which ones look ok and which are crap. On the good ones add one coat of finish as they can sometimes add their own hue to end result and leave to dry. Next day you should be able to zero in on at least one or two that you like the look of.

Once you have ratios figured out use the syringes to measure quantities to be placed in the small containers. For the Orange EX-5 I think it was 5:1 Cooloongatta Gold to Outback Sunset. Don't forget the minimum 30 seconds shaking the brew to blend properly before application.

The build thread for the red bass has the ratios used on the first coat and as the timber was extremely thirsty next day things looked a bit more crimson than what I hoped and for the 2nd stain coat dialled in just a little bit more of the darker fountain pen ink and thankfully nailed it.

A few months ago Dedman PM'd me about Blackstone as he had ordered some ink and it was not forthcoming and ended up cancelling via PayPal and got a refund so if planning to use them do so at your own peril. Would suggest considering the Pelikan Ruby as per these links and there are plenty others on eBay too, just most are more bland ink pad shades.
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_n...&ul_noapp=true
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Seitz-Kre...QAAOSwgmJXxsSV
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Seitz-Kre...QAAOSwMgdXxrDq

Finally, don't be afraid to dilute it down a bit with some water as that will help make things spread a bit further, particularly for the 1st coat, however with the issues you have had with veneer bubbling you may need to wring out as much moisture in the rag before wiping on and doing it this way will require a bit more working it into the grain but worth it in the end.

Hopes this makes sense as it is not that hard. You will probably feel like a primary school kid back in an art class doing all the experimentation but totally worth the effort to dial in the exact colour your are chasing.

Edit: for the wipe on/wipe off method that was done on my blue Tele and suggest having a look at that thread for more details. Worked brilliantly and from memory it was a slightly lighter 1st coat brew and 2nd was a bit darker and was done just after the red one which was an ash body with timber mate to accentuate the grain. The Tele was maple top and this was the only safe method I could think of top pop the grain without sanding.

[Simon Barden]

Listen to Waz.

I was wondering, as the stain seems to be soluble in most substances, and you have that veneer issue, whether you could try dissolving some in turpentine or white spirit? If it worked, that would stop the wood grain lifting (as it would tend to with water), and I'd have thought would have less effect on the veneer glue used (especially if it's PVA-based).

Any thoughts, anybody?

[GregLane]

Thanks for all that info Was
I think you have just tied up all the loose ends. I did bring home a big bag of goodies (containers syringes etc) from the $2 shop last week.
The TO is still coming on nicely, the headstock is cut so I guess it's time for the next big plunge.