Firey Red Finish

[Hobastard]

Sadly, I can't find any pics of what I want, maybe that's because it can't be done, all the close ones are a bit too dark. Maybe I'm being too demanding for a first timer.....

[Simon Barden]

That's a good example Waz (I had yours in mind), though it does also show how the (darkened) ash grain brings the overall brightness of the finish down. Bits of that are very close to a fiery red (in the right light) and others almost a brown.

But would something like that be acceptable, Hobastard, or would you generally like it more vibrant? Not dark staining the Timbermate would help a bit, but some of the grain on ash is very dark anyway. It's lighter on basswood, but that often has very little grain to it, though some pieces do seem to have lots - but probably best to assume not much unless you can pick the exact body you want.

[wazkelly]

Hi Simon, used ebony timbermate as I was wanting to accent the grain in a dark contrasting way. I reckon if stained without TM that the stain would have come out a few shades darker in those grain patterns but not as dark as the ebony filler. Maybe this could be an alternative approach worth considering?

[Dedman]

anyone done candy red paint straight onto timber? Frozen would probably be the guy to ask if the clear red would adhere with no base coat

[wazkelly]

anyone done candy red paint straight onto timber?

Hi Dedman, do you mean traditional Fender Candy Apple Red which is a solid metallic colour or more of a translucent candy red that looks like a tinted clear coat?

There was a build done within past 12 months I think where the forum member did this really cool crackled candy red effect. It was entered in GOTM so that would be the easiest place to find it.

[JB RETRO]

I was thinking along the lines of a 'Nitro' transparent red. The body is sealed with a clear sealer, Vinyl, doesn't hide any of the grain. Its reasonably expensive per can and a bit toxic but a very nice finish.' Sydney guitar setups' sell a whole variety of old school colours in rattle cans.

[Simon Barden]

The Gibson "TV yellow" finish was achieved by tinted grain filling after an initial spray of white paint, then adding 'clear' coats over the top. The lacquers used then weren't light-fast, so quite quickly yellowed (and in the '50s their clear coats were slightly tinted to start with, not 100% clear), but often the "TV yellow" guitars were pretty white. Later they started using cream/light yellow paint and tinted clear coats when they switched to more light-fast lacquers.

Not 100% the same thing, but a similar principle. The (presumably) darker tinted grain filler will show up better against the stained wood than if you'd stained over a tinted grain filler. It may work best on a wood with a lot of decent sized grain pores, like mahogany. Ash may have almost too much depth to it if you want a level finish, though a filler only slightly darker than the body stain might work. If you look at Waz's ash body, the pronounced grain patterns are quite deep.

If you filled all those up, some of those grain lines would be almost solid filler if you then sanded it back all flat, and it could look a bit artificial. But it might not. Maybe it's worth trying to get hold of some pieces of scrap ash and trying a few different staining and filling methods and seeing what you prefer.

[Hobastard]

http://www.tdpri.com/threads/swamp-a...torial.371080/
Cheers Waz, This is the Thread for the "Reverse Stain" Tele.
I'm not saying that I will go that way, Just curious..... I found it a really interesting read.

I'm leaning towards the Basswood body at the moment and keeping the grain subtle with the Transparent Nitro, but that could change right up until I actually do it.....

Right now I want to evaluate every possible avenue so I can choose what's best for me.....

[wazkelly]

Thanks Hobie, interesting read and he definitely took the longer and harder way to get it done.

Only used Timbermate for grain filling on an Ash body as there is stuff all to fill on basswood and likewise on Alder too. If I was to do one again reckon that once the TM has been sanded off after 24 hours curing time it should then be left for a number of days to truly fully cure and harden up so that you can minimise the shrinkage issues many builders talk about once a water based stain or dye is applied. Unless of course you want to see the defined grain lines through the final layers of finish.

Having played around with black stamp pad ink on my latest build I would strongly recommend against using it as the stuff is cheap and nasty and seemed to have an oily property to it that made wiping off extremely difficult. In fact it took 2 days of multiple wet sanding sessions to get rid of the damage caused. In hindsight black fountain pen ink would have done the same effect but easier to work with as you can wipe lots off with a damp rag if need be. Downside could be bleeding or leaching into the next colour applied.

Also read somewhere in past 6 months on this forum where genuine colortone bought from the states (Stewmac perhaps) can be mixed in metho rather than water with better results and that in it's purest state it can also be added to Tru Oil thus allowing you to create a coloured translucent finish - ideal if you want to replicate a toffee apple look. Keda dyes seem to be another option too as they come in a powdered form where you mix it into something to create a coloured paste or liquid and then apply.

In summary, I would use ebony TM, sand and leave for a week then mix a brew of colourtone & TO and start applying that for each and every top coat until done. From 6th coat would dilute down that coloured brew 50:50 with turps and apply with wet & dry paper as I have done on the Swampy Tele as it has come up the best out 5 builds due to this finishing method. If using cherry red it should look like a toffee apple shaped guitar once done.

[Kick]

Hm... Not really happy to read your about your negative experience with black ink because I had planned to use this to recreate a Les Paul Red Widow type of top. And strange also because I have seen numerous YT clips (from Fredyen.com, BigDGuitars and Jamsession.tv) who just are using simple stamp ink for their tops (quilt or flamed veneer).

So, I'm a bit confused right now.

Sorry for going off-topic.