2 Post Trem Question

[McCreed]

I've seen some Wilkinson 2-point trems quoted as fitting 53mm to 63mm post spacing, but I don't see how that's physically possible.

I've seen those and wondered the same thing. Glad it's not just me. I feel better knowing you find it a head-scratcher too Simon.

I'm still thinking the 6 screw trem might be better. Just have to clamp in the neck and see how high the saddles need to be.

By "better" do you mean installation-wise? If you're referring to performance, two-point is "better" IMO. I'm not huge vibrato player, but my one strat that I have set up for it, is two-point. All my vintage-style (6 screw) vibratos are decked/blocked.

[Simon Barden]

A 6-screw trem is really 2-point, as it should be set up so that it's the two outer screws that it all pivots on. But the two-points have thinner knife edges, so they are a bit more accurate.

Technically, as long as the bass post is in the correct position on those Wilkinson trems, then the post distance can vary by that amount, but that is rather stretching the reality of the situation that if you've got post holes 30mm either side of the centre line, and not 28mm (bass) and 32mm (treble) then it will be all wonky. It's the truth, but not the whole truth.

[Rodc]

I've seen those and wondered the same thing. Glad it's not just me. I feel better knowing you find it a head-scratcher too Simon.



By "better" do you mean installation-wise? If you're referring to performance, two-point is "better" IMO. I'm not huge vibrato player, but my one strat that I have set up for it, is two-point. All my vintage-style (6 screw) vibratos are decked/blocked.

That's what I'm thinking McCreed. Easier to install. I might end up selling this guitar so don't want to spend to much on it. I can't fit that rubbish trem that came with the kit...it's junk.

I can't see any local suppliers in Aus that have a cheaper 2 post trem, only 6 hole. Plenty in China though but a month wait.

[Rodc]

A 6-screw trem is really 2-point, as it should be set up so that it's the two outer screws that it all pivots on. But the two-points have thinner knife edges, so they are a bit more accurate.

Technically, as long as the bass post is in the correct position on those Wilkinson trems, then the post distance can vary by that amount, but that is rather stretching the reality of the situation that if you've got post holes 30mm either side of the centre line, and not 28mm (bass) and 32mm (treble) then it will be all wonky. It's the truth, but not the whole truth.

I didn't realise they are only suppose to pivot on the outer screws. I thought it was the 6. The search continues..

[McCreed]

A 6-screw trem is really 2-point, as it should be set up so that it's the two outer screws that it all pivots on. But the two-points have thinner knife edges, so they are a bit more accurate.

Can you elaborate, please?
Presumably if the six holes are drilled in a line accurately, theoretically wouldn't there would be equal contact between the plate and shaft of the screws?

I can't see any local suppliers in Aus that have a cheaper 2 post trem, only 6 hole. Plenty in China though but a month wait.

Have you tried Realtone? I've found their home-brand stuff to be very good quality.
This vibrato is 54mm string spacing, so don't know if it will work for you. $69 HERE

[Rodc]

Can you elaborate, please?
Presumably if the six holes are drilled in a line accurately, theoretically wouldn't there would be equal contact between the plate and shaft of the screws?



Have you tried Realtone? I've found their home-brand stuff to be very good quality.
This vibrato is 54mm string spacing, so don't know if it will work for you. $69 HERE

Thanks McCreed. I saw that one there but need it in black.
Realtone a great to deal with. Bought a heap of pickups and bits and pieces from them then realised Pit Bull were cheaper with PUs. Next day delivery here to the coast..

[McCreed]

Ahhh yes, didn't think about the black...

[Rodc]

Ahhh yes, didn't think about the black...

Think I will keep searching for a 2 post trem. As you said McCreed. If I fit a 56mm centre post it can be replaced down the track with something decent later if needed..

[Simon Barden]

OK, with some more thought, maybe the 6-screw trem pivoting on the two outer screws isn't as straightforward )or correct) as I had read it was (i.e. I'm wrong). The idea is that the four inner screws don't get screwed down as far as the two outer screws, so they determine the height of the trem (correct) and so the trem should really then just pivot on those outer screws (incorrect). However I have seen it described in guitar magazines like that in the past, so I've carried it along with me as gospel, without any critical thinking on my part.

It could happen if the screws had a taper in width over their solid upper part, so that winding the screws out moved the body of the screw away from the side of the trem holes, but that's not the way the screws are made. You'd also be reliant in the six screw holes being drilled in a perfect straight line and not affected by the wood grain at all, but any one of those screw holes being slightly further back than the others and the trem would pivot on that screw (though it then may only pivot on one other screw as a result).

Which probably means in reality (because those screw holes won't be drilled in a perfect straight line and variations in screw width and the edges of the plate screw hole) that trem plate probably does only pivot fully on less than the full number of screws present (maybe two or three), but may touch some others as the trem plate angles. It will only take a gap of a very small fraction of a mm for the trem plate not to rest against a screw.

However, I've just done a test on my 6-hole Wilkinson trem equipped Strat for electrical continuity between the trem plate and the screws. The screws are only screwed into wood, so there shouldn't be any continuity between the trem plate and a screw if its not touching. But all six of my screws buzzed out, both with the inner 4 screws at their normal 1mm raised height, and then with them screwed out to 5mm.

OK, they could be touching at the sides, rather than the back of the holes, but it doesn't look like it. And the pressure of the plate on the screws and contact area will no doubt vary as well, but in this instance, I'd have to admit that it does look like the trem pivots on all six screws.

Of course this may not be the case for every 6-screw trem because of the reasons I've given above, especially with the very wonky screw holes you get on pre-drilled kit guitars that aren't using CNC machines. But the force of the trem plate on the screws will also push the screws forward in the wood a bit (depending on the hardness of the wood), so it's far more likely that they then line up with all (or almost all) of the screws touching the trem plate. My Jap Strat has a basswood body, so that's quite soft. I'll dig out the DG Strat which has an alder body and test that in the same way.

My basic understanding here was definitely faulty. Glad this has come up!

It would certainly be possible to drill the two outer screw holes very slightly further back than the four centre holes, so the trem definitely only rested on them, if the hole diameter in the trem plate allowed this without the four other screws then touching the front of the trem hole and messing up the trem operation.

You could only fit the two outer screws, but this may lead to excessive wear around the screw area over time. You'd probably be happy to fit something non-moving with the same two smallish screws, but add in the trem action and it's probably not a good idea.

[McCreed]

Of course this may not be the case for every 6-screw trem because of the reasons I've given above, especially with the very wonky screw holes you get on pre-drilled kit guitars that aren't using CNC machines.

Or half-blind Aussie with a "she'll be right" kind of work ethic! (that's only half true btw )

This discussion also got me thinking about different screw sizes, positions, hole shapes in the plate etc just like you mentioned above.
I reckon that's just how (whoever) came up with the two-point vibrato design in the first place!