Lyn #13 - MMB-4 (Fretless)

[robin]

Lol. Thanks Warren, strike 3, 4, 5, it doesn't matter. Whatever it takes to get a good guitar. I'm prepared for a long haul.

[wokkaboy]

haha hope not Rob, the good thing is you have spare time on your side !

[ShazzRandom]

Hope it works out for you! I wish I was stuck with a timber gremlin not a electrical one !!

[robin]

Thanks Shazz. Yeah timber probs are always easier to trouble shoot than electrickery ones.

I've been keeping an eye on your build Shazz, and now you've got all the wiring out of your guitar, it might be time to start again. Its not rocket science, just take your time and make sure each connection has been soldered correctly and move on to the next one.

Make sure that no bare wires are touching and check and double check all your earth connections. Use a multimeter to check continuity with all the earth connections with the back of each pot and the earth connection of your output plug. Also make sure that you have the whole thing earthed to one of your bridge posts.

Hope you get it sorted soon mate, she is a beautiful guitar and I can't wait to here her sing.

[dingobass]

Love ya perserverance Robin

I really should banish you to the naughty room for using epoxy on your build, but your experiments have got my interest

[robin]

Love ya perserverance Robin

I really should banish you to the naughty room for using epoxy on your build, but your experiments have got my interest

Thanks Phil. Perserverance/stupidity..............tomato/tomayto.

I would have thought that I had a 5 x life sentence in the NW for introducing the Forums to Naughty Oil.

Cheers mate.

[wokkaboy]

Hey Rob, yeah I got 3 x life so think you would have less. Although introducing TO is bit of a crime introducing it to the forum on that lovely walnut IB-5 GOTM winner,
any news on the epoxy coat or you still sanding it back ?

best of luck with #3

[robin]

Hey Warren, finished preping the fingerboard this morning and the epoxy has now been on for about 4 hours, and looks to have bonded to the fingerboard. Apparently epoxy takes longer to cure than polyester resin, so I am trying to keep my excitement under control.

From what I can gather after researching MILLIONS of forums is that the longer you leave it before putting it under stress the stronger it will be. As it happens I will not be able to do any work on the bass until Tuesday or Wednesday, so that will be the test for me. I will try and start sanding it back then and I will see how well it has bonded. But I am cautiously optimistic at this stage.

I haven't included any photos or details at this stage as it might be a bit premature if it all goes belly up. If all goes well next week I will start detailing my experience then.

[ShazzRandom]

Thanks Shazz. Yeah timber probs are always easier to trouble shoot than electrickery ones.

I've been keeping an eye on your build Shazz, and now you've got all the wiring out of your guitar, it might be time to start again. Its not rocket science, just take your time and make sure each connection has been soldered correctly and move on to the next one.

Make sure that no bare wires are touching and check and double check all your earth connections. Use a multimeter to check continuity with all the earth connections with the back of each pot and the earth connection of your output plug. Also make sure that you have the whole thing earthed to one of your bridge posts.

Hope you get it sorted soon mate, she is a beautiful guitar and I can't wait to here her sing.

Thanks Lyn, I can't wait to hear her sing either!!
It sucks cause it was all good before I tried fitting it... No hum or anything and under testing was perfect.
Just waitng for my new wire and pots ready to start again

Hope the epoxy goes well for you!

[robin]

Third time lucky!

The Epoxy resin has worked far better than the polyester resin. I think I’ll leave polyester to cheap crappy shirts.

The Epoxy seems to have bonded very well to the Rosewood with no signs of delaminating. At this stage it is crystal clear and I am hoping that after sanding down (now that’s another story) I can get it back to the original appearance.

APOLOGIES as this will be a long post. If you have no intention of ever doing this you can stop reading NOW. But for anybody who wants to give it a try I thought it might help to document the process as I did it.

First off, a big thank you to the guy at Boat Owners Warehouse at Salisbury here in Brisbane (no connection, just a happy customer). He is experienced in using epoxy and spared the time to talk me though the process. Unfortunately they only had Epoxy in 5 litre containers in stock, but when I told him how much I wanted he decanted 500ml down for me into smaller containers. Great service!

PREPARATION:
As I had left a bit of a mess with the polyester resin I thoroughly cleaned the FB with Acetone several times to make sure that there were no contaminants on the FB. I didn’t want a re-occurrence of the delamination that I had with Polyester resin.

As I was going to do this as a “pour” and not brushing it on, I had to I mask off the FB. I should have taken more care with this as I creased the tape in a few places and this has resulted in the edges of the resin being noticeably uneven. I just used painter’s tape, so I am not sure if proper masking tape would have been better.

As the resin is self-leveling I used a spirit level to make sure that I would get an even layer on the FB. I had already cut a nut slot and attempted to fill the slot with an old plastic nut cover with the painters tape. Again I did a sub-standard job with the tape and that allowed the resin to flow into and around the taped nut and slot, essentially gluing it in place. D’oh!

MIXING THE EPOXY:
Because the resin and catalyst was decanted into non-standard tins I had no instructions to follow. Trying to remember what I had been told and my relentless internet searches I decided to mix for an arbitrary 5 minutes.

When you first pour the catalyst into the resin it looks almost like oil and water. The name of the game is to mix GENTLY. You want to avoid creating any air bubbles. You need to see that both compounds have combined completely. Looking very carefully into the mix you should not be able to see any “streaks” or “strings” of catalyst.

I mixed for 5 minutes and then let it stand for another 5 to allow the bubbles to dissipate. I am not sure if my theory worked or not, but as I had a “working” window of about 30 to 45 minutes I thought it was worth a try.

THE POUR:
Pretty straight forward. Pour gently so as to avoid the dreaded air bubbles. The resin is crystal clear and I was not too sure of the depth. I probably poured in too much, but as I intend to sand it back I thought that too much was better than not enough. If anyone is interested I used about 120ml of resin to do a 22 “fret” bass neck.

I was not too sure how long Epoxy takes to cure. There are so many variables that effect this that I decided to err on the cautious side and leave it for 5 days.

THE AIR BUBBLES!!!
The dreaded air bubbles. After the pour I noticed several bubbles a little smaller than pin head size. I had bought a small butane lighter (about $10) and just quickly waved it for a second or two about 120mm from the resin and the bubbles magically popped immediately. It’s important to keep the flame moving and not concentrate too much heat in one spot. I also noticed a few bubbles up against the masking tape and thought that using a naked flame there could lead to a disaster. So I used a tooth pick to maneuver them to the surface and just popped them.

What I didn’t notice, was the myriad of minuscule bubbles at the heel and nut ends of the FB. It’s hard to explain but as the ends of the board had tape around 3 sides it prevented light from penetrating into the resin. The bubbles became immediately apparent as soon as I removed the tape and the light highlighted the bubbles. In hindsight (what a wonderful thing) if I had waved the magic lighter at these ends I am sure the bubbles would have disappeared.

These bubbles are really tiny and may not be too noticeable in the finish, but I fear they may produce a “dimple” effect. If it is purely cosmetic and does not affect how the bass plays I will not worry about it.

SANDING:
Just a note of caution. When the masking tape is removed it leaves a meniscus (yes, it’s a real word) along the edge of the resin. This is razor sharp, and I have several cuts on my hands can attest to it. It’s so sharp that I didn’t even feel the cuts. None were very deep but it could so easily have been a lot more painful. You have been warned. My advice is to get rid of them (I just used a file) as soon as possible.

I intend to sand it to the standard PBG 12inch radius and after about 45 minutes with 80 grit paper I can see that those among you who hate sanding will really love this stuff. It’s quite hard, but it gums up the paper. So a dozen or so wipes with the paper and you have to get rid of the balled up resin with a steel brush. I have noticed that the paper gums up a lot quicker is you try to speed up the process by pressing hard. So long gentle strokes is the way to go.

Would I pour again instead of brushing on several coats? Jury is still out on that one. I will leave my decision until after the job is complete, but as I had made such a shocker when trying to radius the board the first time I really didn’t have a choice this time around.

Sorry for the long winded post but I hope it has helped somebody. I have probably left some things out so if some of it is not very clear just let me know.

Now for the Pics.

Pic #1 & 2 – The painter’s tape dam.
Pic #3 – The “glued” in dummy nut. Also the result of some uneven tape and some of those pesky bubbles.