THE NAUGHTY CORNER

[stan]

wouldnt the ultimate be not to put a finish on a guitar at all? Not good for longevity , but killer for tone...

[Gavin1393]

/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from bargeloobs on June 7, 2014, 04:48

/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/Quote from dingobass on June 6, 2014, 07:49
Some very valid points re finishes and their tonal effects..
Whilst 'crylic and ni, ni.... That stuff.... do give a strong surface protection there is a slight tradeoff with tone.
Of course the better quality of timber used will negate this loss of tone even further.

If you want a real tone monster the way to go is string through on a neck through construction using bone or Mother of Pearl nut and bridge saddles and finishing the instrument with wax, oils or shellac.. But not everyone is as anal as me about these things

"ni ni" I laffed!
So essentially you've said it yourself DB "there is a slight tradeoff with tone", so in fact using the term "tone killer" is (I think you'll agree) a bit extreme.
I think they're all valid points too but we must look at "tone" objectively and not get hung up on certain products just because we prefer them over others, I reckon if something sounds good then....it probably is (and vice versa).
Hmmm.... a string through, neck through Firebird...

In my defence, if you re-read my comment I didn't say nitro was a 'tone killer' but referred to 'tone killing properties'. Anything that reduces the potential tone of an instrument lessens the quality of the sound of the guitar. As i also said, this is a hotly debated subject. I love the story told by Erwin Somogyi whose acoustic guitars sell for around $35,000 a guitar.

A customer brought in an average guitar to ask him to repair it. The guitar was no longer playing in tune and needed to be fixed. Erwin took a look at the guitar and there was nothing to suggest any damage that would suddenly lead to the guitar playing out of tune. The customer was insistent that for several years there was no issue with the tuning, it had to be something that had changed within the guitar.

Erwin being the pro that he is knew better, he explained to the client that what had in fact changed was the client's ability to hear the correct notes up and down the fretboard. He explained that the clients guitar was never perfectly in tune and that the client was now at a level where a far superior guitar was needed. How did Erwin discover this, he simply handed the customer some of his hand built guitars and of course these were spot on, he then gave the customer some of his other client guitars that he was doing basic repair work to and these guitars were as out of tune as the customers own guitar.

I love this story because i know in my own experience how my ears learned to hear what I believe is sound quality. Working in a recording studio for several years can fine tune you auditory abilities or perhaps make you deaf(?). Maybe DB and I are pedantic about tone. We are extremely hard on ourselves when we build because we want to build an instrument that we will be proud to put our names to, hence our relentless quest! But tone and sound is a very personal choice and there really is no right or wrong answer when saying that one likes a particular tone. This is also why we share what we have learned so freely on the forum.
Debate is always welcome, this is how we learn too.

The ultimate would indeed be not to put finish on a guitar and in fact I always dread the loss of tone that might occur with my acoustic builds. But, especially with acoustics they need protection and to reduce the expansion and contraction of the wood with humidity which can raise and lower the bridge and hence the string height over the fretboard. So there has to be a compromise.

As DB said, there is a trade-off between tone, protection and finish required to achieve both.

[jarrod]

Ah Gav we know your not wrong but hey I just like stuff that's shiney.
Also to put a point out there that piano's where once shellac and not painted like they are now.
How mass production changes things hey !

[bargeloobs]

I'm hearin' ya Gav, if I was puttin' out instruments of your blokes quality and craftsmanship I'd be fairly pedantic about it too.

[kells80aus]

Now what was the story about Jambuck heaters (approx. $100 at the Big Green Store)

PK

Ok Quick look online, someone got ripped off.Jumbuck 2000W Outdoor Electric Heater $69

Just had a blonde moment. If I put my patio heater in their I could achieve an instant cure. WOOOOF..

[wokkaboy]

PK don't use a heater to cure the clear coats, its an infra red heater, I had a look on the big green shed website and couldn't see it so you will have to check with your local store.
Think the brand is Jumbuck, it has 2 or 3 heater tubes in it, looks similar to the outdoor one

[kells80aus]

Tks Wokka. the prob isn't the curing it's the warming.

PK

[kells80aus]

I might head down to 'United Tools' in Hopeless Crossing and see what they have to offer. they had some electric units in their last week.

PK

[barrylicious]

How bout a hybrid brass resonator/ electric build for tone. Use a mix of pickups and bug mikes.
Im new to guiitar building so I'm not sure what's possible and plausible. But I've played on an old resonater acoustic and loved the tone that came from it, but I'd still like the versatility of an electric (for lead riffs) without swapping guitars.

[jarrod]

The naughty room AGM went well with DB lifting the ban for the day. Wokks served the pints and Gav may just be convinced to buy a CNC. Beer flowed and I got to show off a couple off my favourite girls. Really good to meet Gav Wokks and Wayne and ofcause always good to see DB. Next one at Adams for pitbull party