A question about tone...

[lawry]

@Wokka. Nah. My ukes get a flogging on Thursday nights here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-U...73236849474986
where I'm one of the teachers. Don't let that hammed up coconut vid fool you ;-)

[ultpanzi]

Talking about nuts giving tone, the nut affects the vibration transfer to the wood in its own way. Sounds minor, but it really makes a difference. If you really want a super consistent sound, get a fret zero. This essentially is a fret instead of the nut so that there is absolutely no difference. It feels a little weird to play at first but you can adjust within a few minutes and youll have a perfectly consistent tone. Other nut materials give different tones depending on the guitar and they style but im really a fan of a tusq nut cos its gives a nice darker tone and works really well for non locking tremolos cos if you set it up right, youll stay in tune while going crazy in your trem.

[stan]

Agreed that the nut absolutely affects the tone of an open string, but can someone please give me an explanation as to how the nut can possibly affect a fretted note, other than "it does" ?

It is not in play at all, it does not form a part of the vibrating part of the string, it doesn't affect vibration transfer to the neck, it all may be so - but how?

For example - if you barre across the 5th fret and play all the strings, then do the same and add a capo the the 3rd fret (barre still across the 5th), it sounds no different, I tried it, so how on earth does the nut composition affect it?

Thanks again, just trying to sift out some the the myth around guitar tone...

[lawry]

Gotta admit that I'm with you Stan. I know a lot of people swear that the nut still affects the tone of a fretted string but I'm afraid that it makes no sense to me.

[adam]

The nut cannot affect the tone of anything but a genuine "open note".

[dingobass]

Surprisingly, the strings do vibrate all the way to the nut even when fretted.
You can test this quite easily on a Bass string by fretting the note and gently touch the string with the back of your finger nail. you can feel the string vibrate.

Strings being made of metal, vibrate along their full length, setting up harmonics etc that resonate the headstock and nut, hence a brass nut will give a fretted note a brighter tone and a bone nut a more mellow tone.

Its all about metallic resonance vibey thing

[stan]

That makes sense DB, but is that vibration, not over the pickup, that detectable that you could pick a bone nut vs a plastic nut on a fretted note just by listening? Really?

Is it because the combination of open and fretted notes sound more mellow due to nut composition (which I can certainly agree with), or does even a barre chord have a mellower sound - which I have more trouble with...

I agree that nut compostion affects tuning, stability, open note tone, sustain (another black art surrounded in myth and legend...), etc...

I would love to see some blind tests done with the same guitar with two different nuts and fretted notes. Not two similar guitars - but the same one... proper sound tests and oscilloscope readings - with results in the detectable hearing range.

Also that being the case, why doesn't everyone rush out and get bone saddles made as well? You could machine saddle rollers from bone or tusq, or corian, or graphite... wouldn't that make more sense - that way fretted and open notes would sound the same. Expensive, tricky and would wear - but if tone is the ultimate pursuit, then surely that is the definitive answer...

[Gavin1393]

Paul from PRS explains it beautifully in this video.....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3o2FHxz9O8

[dingobass]

Stan, in answer to your question as to why dont many Luthiers use Bone for Bridges...

The main reason why most Electric Luthiers dont use bone bridges is because basically the CUSTOMER wants a this or a that brand bridge.

My top end builds ALL have bone bridges... See pics below.

These Bass Guitars have been played by quite a few Professional Bass players and they all say the same thing.
THE TONE!

[stan]

Great vid Gav, thanks.

However, all it really explained was that different nut materials have different tonal properties - absolutely no argument there.
I also agree that the composition of the guitar will have tonal effect of the guitar in an acoustic sense.

But I am wondering about effect on fretted notes by the nut whilst played amplified.

Love or hate Scott Grove, here is another version of the same argument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtnx-gnMrTQ

Now I'm not necessarily on his side either, but I'm yet to be convinced either way nut composition affects a fretted note...

This is an excellent discussion point though.

Hey DB just saw your answer - now this makes all the sense in the world to me - bone at both ends means both open and fretted notes are influenced by the bone. This I get and this I believe would make a lot of difference. Beautiful guitars by the way.

But back to the original thought - bone at one end only - any influence on a fretted note?