Esquire-esque

[EsquireEsque]

Glad that you got most of it out! That's real progress given where you started! It's amazing how much of an improvement fret leveling makes, I have found. I have only had one neck that didn't need at least some leveling. The one that didn't was a Warmoth radiused neck. I'd expect that from a neck that sells for more than any kit I have bought ;-)

Getting rid of the buzz with normal playing is pretty good. Eventually you will hit the point of diminishing returns trying to get every bit of buzz out of the low E when you are playing hard. You may want to see if you can hear it when amplified before doing too much more.

If you do decide that you want to try to get that last bit out, you might use one of these on the 2nd fret:

Attachment 45706

These are sometimes marketed as "fret dressing sticks" or "fret dressing tools" in places that sell to guitar people. The exact same item is often sold cheaper at wood working sites where it is called a "sanding detailer stick."

Something nice about these is that you can use them to lower a fret just under the string that is buzzing without taking more metal off the whole fret. I have used mine on the low end of the fretboard when the fretboard is pretty much level, but I have a small, persistent buzz, usually one the 2nd or 3rd fret, and just one one or two strings.

If you decide to go after 16-22. Tape off the frets from 1-11. Put two pieces of blue painters tape on the 12th fret. Then level the frets from 13-22. The painters tape will raise the height of the 12th fret just enough to take off just a bit of the frets below that. You could concentrate just on the bass side of the neck if you want, or the whole neck. If you want Either way that should eliminate your problem at the treble end of the neck.

I just did this with a Tele neck, although I raised the 9th fret rather than the 12th for a slightly more gradual slope. I have done it both ways and don't think it makes much difference, since you only have a little buzz you could do it either way.

Hope this helps. It always seems to me that the last 10% involves 90% more effort ;-)

Yes - that's another thing I was thinking - to gently work on a fret that I suspect is not behaving... (but i've not seen it mentioned before, so I though there'd be some problem I hadn't considered or knew about)
As mentioned - it seems that the second and (possibly) the 17th fret are the cause....

So - if it is something that is "done" (rather than my own uninformed opinion) that an individual fret can be worked I'll give that a try. I've looked up sanding sticks and there seems to be a type that resembles a "q-tip" (looks like a bamboo skewer with a flat top on an agle with a small piece of sandpaper.... It'd be simple to make a similar tool out of a "popsicle stick" or a fatter skewer and a small piece of sandpaper. obviously It'd be run down the length of the individual fret (underneath the buzzing string).

I do notice that the strings seem further away from the fretboard than they are on my Telecaster - which it is hard not to see as a possible cause - although you have advised that's normal for a Gibson (or a 24 3/4" scale length) neck.

To correct my post above...
capo'd at the first fret, the bottom of the Low E string is about 2 mm higher than the 12th fret.
Capo'd at the first fret and fretted on the 17th - the bottom of the Low E string is about .5 mm above the 7th or 8th fret
Capo's at the first fret - the bottom of the of the low E string is about 2.5 mm higher than the 22nd fret.

I am also still wondering if the neck was settled in another 1mm lower - then the angle would be just that little less near the higher frets (say 16 to 22)......

But yes - it's the very last bits that are the hardest.

Thanks again for all your help.

[fender3x]

Yes - that's another thing I was thinking - to gently work on a fret that I suspect is not behaving... (but i've not seen it mentioned before, so I though there'd be some problem I hadn't considered or knew about)
As mentioned - it seems that the second and (possibly) the 17th fret are the cause....

It's done, and your approach should work. It's not a substitute for fret leveling, but it can be helpful when you have a single fret--or just a part of a fret, that is a little high. I should also say that I can usually identify the fret or the part of the fret that is a problem with the fret rocker. I found this video helpful for using the fret rocker...

...I've looked up sanding sticks and there seems to be a type that resembles a "q-tip" (looks like a bamboo skewer with a flat top on an agle with a small piece of sandpaper.... It'd be simple to make a similar tool out of a "popsicle stick" or a fatter skewer and a small piece of sandpaper. obviously It'd be run down the length of the individual fret (underneath the buzzing string).

You can use those, or a small file. I like the stick because the belt makes it easy to "refresh" the sanding surface. Also sand-paper is slower than a file which reduces my chances of getting it too low. Also the sticks are cheap. Usually a criterion for me liking a tool ;-)

I do notice that the strings seem further away from the fretboard than they are on my Telecaster - which it is hard not to see as a possible cause - although you have advised that's normal for a Gibson (or a 24 3/4" scale length) neck

Lower string tension could be a reason for the strings to need to be a bit higher "all things being equal" as the economists say. But the strings being higher should reduce buzz, not cause it. So if it's still buzzing there may be something else.

I am also still wondering if the neck was settled in another 1mm lower - then the angle would be just that little less near the higher frets (say 16 to 22)......

Maybe I am confused... It seems like it would be easier to just raise the saddle by 1mm to produce the same effect? There is an oldschool method of setting the action where you increase the height at the saddle to where you don't hear a buzz and then lower it until you do. Then raise it back up just to the point of no buzz.*

*You want to make sure that your nut height is OK. Do this by capo'ing at the 3rd fret and making sure you can slide a piece of paper between the first fret and the string.

[EsquireEsque]

Maybe I am confused... It seems like it would be easier to just raise the saddle by 1mm to produce the same effect? There is an oldschool method of setting the action where you increase the height at the saddle to where you don't hear a buzz and then lower it until you do. Then raise it back up just to the point of no buzz.*

*You want to make sure that your nut height is OK. Do this by capo'ing at the 3rd fret and making sure you can slide a piece of paper between the first fret and the string.

If I do that then the strings are very high off the fretboard.
The thought is that if the neck was in a 18mm socket, then the angle would mean the string is just a bit higher off the end of the fretboard, but not correspondingly higher off most of the fretboard (given that the nut is also lowered).

Capo'd at the 3rd fret - there's room for a thick piece of paper and a credit card.

I've done the "spot" levelling... it's a little bit better again.

I'm thinking that perhaps I was too worried about taking off too much from the higher frets (after taping at the 9th or 12th fret).

[fender3x]

Capo'd at the 3rd fret - there's room for a thick piece of paper and a credit card.

I've done the "spot" levelling... it's a little bit better again.

I'm thinking that perhaps I was too worried about taking off too much from the higher frets (after taping at the 9th or 12th fret).

I know that feeling! Those very high frets look like they are getting very flat, before you see anything come off the 13th or 10th (depending on what you tape). Looking at it from the side occasionally, so that you can see there is still plenty of fret there helps.

Once you have the frets levelled, and the guitar strung, you can try the first three steps in set up (Tune, Relief, Action at the bridge) to see if it still buzzes. You probably won't need to adjust the relief, but I'd still check it.

If you don't get buzz when you get the action set at the bridge, great. If you still have buzz, I would be curious as to how high you need to get the saddle to stop having buzz.


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[EsquireEsque]

I wonder about the tuners as well..... how "snug" (a tight fit) are they supposed to be?
it they are to fit in snug to the point where they cannot "wriggle" - that might be the problem - because they are not that snug....

I've just placed the Grovers into the second neck... and there was a bit of wriggle room (I can't remember if it was the same for the first neck, which have the "standard" tuners in)- so if they are supposed to be snug the holes in the headstock are up to 1/5 millimetre or so too big.