Upgrade for Hollow Bodies - Advise Please

[GregLane]

As we I will be tucked away for the next few month I might as well start a new project when I finish the ST shortly.

I am keen on the hollowbody ES-1Q or similar.

I would appreciate advice what upgrades have been done on the hollow body kits.

My priority is advice on the pickups but very interested on any other suggestions.

Greg

[Simon Barden]

Certainly worth upgrading the pickups before the electrics get installed as doing it later is a PITA. Personally I'd go for a PAF-style pickup, but others have gone for high output units and it's worked for them. So presuming you don't want to spend a huge amount on pickups, I'd look at the Tonerider AC2s. I've worked on an ES-1 with the Tonerider AC4s fitted, and I thought they were far too powerful for the guitar. I couldn't get a proper clean sound from my Two-Rock amp with them, they just pushed it into a bit of overdrive. Or you could go for a bridge humbucker, humbucker-sized neck P90 for a more varied sound.

Because it is a hassle to work on the electrics in a semi, then I'd seriously consider fitting better pots, selector switch and jack socket from the start, and have them work for a long time without needing attention. I'd also use vintage-style cloth push-back wire, because it's thicker and won't flex as much as the thin kit wire. I'd use Bournes, CTS or Alpha pots, and probably stick to the mini ones because they are so much easier to fit inside the F-hole (you'll probably have to enlarge the pot holes in the body to fit these). I'm now a big fan of Pure Tone jack sockets, so I'd fit one of those, and probably a Switchcraft toggle switch. Orange drop capacitors are a good choice for the tone pots.

You should be able to get all the electric bits from Realparts, if you haven't already got a favourite supplier. https://www.realparts.com.au/

The basic kit hardware isn't too bad, though I'd go for the tuner upgrade option from PBG and get some cheap Grovers from PitBull. These to match the guitar style, though you may prefer less vintage ones. https://www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/...vintage-style/

I always upgrade the bridge (and by association, the stop tailpiece) on my guitars as the kit ABR bridges tend to have quite loose fitting alloy saddles. I normally pick the TonePros locking hardware. But you could spend a fair bit doing that, and it's something you can do later if you feel the need.

An upgrade for the nut is highly recommended. I always use bone ones, but there are good synthetic ones like Tusq. The kit nut is of quite soft plastic and is hollow in the middle.

So that's what I'd do, but others will have differing views.

[McCreed]

I'm not a hollowbody guy, so I won't comment on a pickup choice other than to say that Toneriders overall are a very good option for their price (and Adam seems to have the best prices on them I've seen).

I always upgrade the bridge (and by association, the stop tailpiece) on my guitars as the kit ABR bridges tend to have quite loose fitting alloy saddles. I normally pick the TonePros locking hardware. But you could spend a fair bit doing that, and it's something you can do later if you feel the need.

Since Simon already suggested Realtone (I buy most of my parts from them) and if you are considering a bridge upgrade, the Gotoh bridges are excellent quality and value.

I recently got a Gotoh 103B-T Bridge for $48 and a Gotoh 103B Bridge for $40 (I already had a good stop tails - both chrome). If you want bridge & tail piece, they have the combo for $79 (which I have also installed previously)

[Joe Garfield]

I've exclusively played semi-hollow bodies since my second guitar and find that a good bridge makes a world of difference in getting the most resonance/sustain from the guitar design. I think Adam sells TonePros? They have a great reputation. I use Gotoh. Also an upgraded nut is nice - Graph Tech or similar - also for maximum resonance/sustain. Oh and lightweight (mini) tuners can be a help. I've had guitars that were neck heavy due to the lighter body and they all got sold because of it - despite being my favorite playing/sounding guitars. But most of that depends on the guitar design, where the strap attaches, etc.

I just ordered the PSH-1. If I were building a guitar to play I would use 1950s influenced Alnico 2 pickups, Gotoh bridge/tailpiece, and upgraded wiring/pots, Graph Tech nut and mini locking tuners. This is my first 'build' so I might build stock, and save the upgrades for #2 which would be custom ordered with better tone wood.

[GregLane]

Thanks Simon, McCreed and Joe

I know little about the hollow bodies but have been keen to try them after watching the them on YouTube and not really appreciating them in the good old days of Rock and Roll - the Byrds etc.

Thanks for your advice, it has sure given me some direction for my research.

I seem to be building the classic type guitars - LP, ST. ES. I guess I will have to build a Tele as well.

[Simon Barden]

Strictly the ES-1 (and the real 335) are semi-hollow because of their centre block to reduce feedback. But the ES-1 has a much lighter body than a real 335, and does tend to resonate a bit more as a result. So it is closer to a full hollow-bodied ES-330 in acoustic response.

[fender3x]

I have built a couple of ES basses, but haven't built an ES guitar, but I have an old thinline hollowbody to use as a guide.

All advice is FWIW. If it were mine I'd mostly follow Simon's advice, which I think can be prioritized. Pots should be good quality, mini pots (16mm) with a solid shaft. Guitar pots come in short and long bushing. You'll want the longer ones because the ES top is thicker than a pick guard or metal control plate. Minis because they are easier to fit through the f-hole. Solid shaft because they use knobs that have set screws rather than pull-on/pull-off. I once pulled the shaft completely out of a pot trying to get the knob off. It's one thing to do that on a Tele where you just open the plate and replace the pot. It's something else entirely on semi-hollow where you have to fish the whole wiring harness through the F-hole. The only long bushing, solid shaft mini pots I have found from are Bourns, so that's what my last build has. CTS makes minis, but I have only found them with knurled shafts (and it's a CTS where I pulled out the shaft). I have found solid shafts in Alphas but not with long bushings, so, process of elimination.

I wish I had known about Pure-Tone jacks when I put together my semi hollows. If I even have to take the harness out, I'll change out the Switchcrafts they've got for Pure Tones. It's a better design, as Simon noted elsewhere. The other advantage for an ES builder is that the threaded shaft is a bit longer. The switchcrafts I've used up to now are so short it's really hard to get the nut on them, and they are in the worst location for reaching inside with a hand or tool.

Use a good switch as well. A short, open frame toggle is pretty standard. I have also had good luck with C&K switches if you want a sealed switch. Mostly you'll see minis from them, but they do make a "large bat" switch for guitars if you can find them.

I agree with Simon about the use of a stiffer wire so that it holds it's shape. If you do standard Gibson wiring, you only need to get a hot wire and a ground between the components. So on my last build I used a stiff coax wire which also had the advantage that the ground wire also functioned as shielding. Something you don't otherwise get in an ES.

On the pups, I'd go with the PAF...which is in the Goldilocks zone for hotness, will look right, and will give you all the best Gibson tones IMHO. I love P90s but would avoid them on this. I have an old hollow thin-line guitar with DeArmond pickups (similar to a P90). They sound nice but they are really noisy. I put a set of Dano lipsticks in an ESB-4 bass. Not a bad tone, but lots of noise. Third time with another ES4 style bass, I put in Bill Lawrence humbuckers, which are nice and quiet. I have a coil cut on them. If I solo a pickup with the coil cut I usually get noise. So, as much as I like the P90, I'd go with a PAF in a semi-hollow.

All my builds and upgrades have included a bone nut, and PB has them so cheap, why would you not? Plus it's easier to do the flush sanding for it before the finish goes on. It can be done either way though, so the electronic upgrades get higher priority for me.

I did not use either of the kit bridges on my ES basses, but if the quality is similar with the guitars I would be inclined to upgrade. That said, the bridge is probably the easiest of all these mods to upgrade once you have a finished and playing guitar, so I might be inclined to do that last.

Finally, for the price that Adam has Grover tuners, I'd be inclined to do those as well. It may not make as much difference on a guitar as on a bass, but better to chose the tuners before putting the finish on, I think since they don't all have the same footprint. My thinline has been rocking Grovers since 1968, so I know they're durable ;-) (OK, I did not buy it new, but I've had it since the mid-1970s when I bought it at H&H pawn shop in Walla Walla, WA.* )

OK. So pretty much, upgrade everything.

*I know that the Walla Walla in AUS is in NSW. But the Walla Walla I grew up in is in WA...Washington State, not Western Australia ;-)

[GregLane]

Thanks Fender 3x

You sure have added to the research it looks like I will need to do before I purchase something. Thanks for all that info.

Yeah Mate, Walla Walla is in the bush just past the black stump. Not as far as Outback though. As we Aussies say. hihi

Our Walla Walla was the name of a squatters station(ranch) where the town was built. I have no idea of the source of the name. Sounds aboriginal so I would be interested if you have any idea how your Walla Walla originated.

Greg

[fender3x]

I read somewhere that the AUS WW ist an Aboriginal name that means means "place of many rocks". The folks that live in the US WW say it's an Indian name that means "place of many many waters." So named because of the many springs in town. I find that suspicious since the tribe of the same name didn't actually live where the town is located. On the other hand were they did live was near the confluence of three major rivers so the theory is not totally nuts. Better theory is that the town was named after the tribe, and the tribe got it's name because the first US expedition that encounterd them couldn't pronounce what they called themselves. Of course my mother says "it's the town so nice they named it twice."

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[GregLane]

Thanks f3x

We might be off topic here but very interesting. We do a lot of caravanning around Aus and always interested in where names come from name.
NZ is interesting, they have a lot of words starting with what sounds like f*@& but the founding fathers decided they should be spelt with PH...... .
Anyway great to hear from you. We better get back to building guitars.