Premium Quality Kits

[Simon Barden]

$800 is more than some PRS SE models.

A couple of years ago maybe, but that's no longer the case as all the PRS SE models have been moved upwards in price and features - carved tops rather than slab tops, often PRS US pickups etc. The cheapest new PRS SE in Andertons (ignoring the one run-out sale model) is now £729 (currently Aus$1196) - though I expect an Australian shop price to be significantly higher.

I do understand what you are getting at though. Even if good value for the wood quality and manufacturing standards, $800 is still a lot of money for most people, especially once you've added on the cost of all the finishing materials. But there are those who do have the money and having made some of the cheaper kits, may feel like they want to try something different. Whether it's commercially viable for PBG to invest in stocking such a range is a question for Adam. I suspect there's quite a large export market for PBG kits, but the various import duties involved on a $800 kit, whilst the same percentage-wise as on a $200 kit, make a big difference to the overall price (you could buy a standard PBG kit with the mark-up), so I see a limited export potential for the top-price kits.

Ignoring all that, very good quality Strat or Tele kits for Aus$400 (rather than the fancy AAA maple topped $800 guitars) are obviously going to be the biggest volume sellers out of such a range.

A good one or two piece ash body with matched pieces of wood, not joined at an angle, and with a more Fender-like 9.5" or even 7.25" radius neck (hopefully there would be both options), as opposed to a generic 12" radius, could make up the basis of a very nice guitar indeed.

But all this is still pure speculation, as we have yet to see examples of the kits or know what quality of hardware (if any) they will come with.

[Chuck]

I agree on the premium necks as there's definitely a market there for people who are happy to do a scratch-build body but are happy with a pre-made neck (like me!).

For me premium kits aren't as much of a draw, but I fully get that they are for many. As elcoyloco says, there's a sweet spot in what's currently offered.

The only other thing would be expanding the range of hardware to provide an alternative to the likes of Realparts or Stewmac. Then again, that's a lot of inventory to carry.

As far as the premium kits go, I'm guessing you'd only offer them in a limited range to assess interest?

[Maddogm]

I guess it comes down to what you get for that price: for example does the hardware match the price tag as well as the body?
if it came with the same pickups as the chinese kits then people would baulk. I think those of us who upgrade everything on the chinese kits would definitely give them a look if it meant less things to upgrade.

Assuming an overall upgrade in quality I think they would sell, just at much slower rate than the standard kits. So then it becomes a matter of will they sell enough to be worthwhile?

[Zandit75]

Port Mac guitars have a wide range of PRS SE guitars, starting point is $749AUD and work up to almost $1600AUD.

[Simon Barden]

But those $749 ones are no longer in the PRS SE catalogue and won't be available in future once they are sold. I obviously can't say that PRS will never make a 'basic' SE guitar again, but they have currently opted to move out of the sub-$1000 market, probably because of increased competition from others in that area. Look at the one's labelled as 2017 models and you are now looking at a $1100 starting price. (It's now become obvious to me they've dropped the cheaper models for the 2017 model year, so it's less than a year, not a couple as I first mentioned).

And I'm sure the $800 PRS kit would be far more like the fully arched PRS Core range guitars than the more bevelled-edged SE and S2 range. Plus, unlike the SEs, the tops should (hopefully) be all solid wood with no veneer on top (so no glue marks!).

[Zandit75]

Gotcha, sorry I didn't look that hard at the details, I had only been on the site earlier last week, and thought the prices were much lower than what your mentioned.

[Simon Barden]

I only knew because I'd read it on a review of a PRS SE in a guitar mag.

[Dikkybee007]

Firstly my collection of electric guitars numbers 12, 4 finished store bought and 8 kits. The store bought bass cost me, on special, $299 and I had to replace the strings and replaced the nut which added another $50. The store bought Strat I again bought on special for $250 and I replaced all the electrics over time and nut which probably added about $220. The LP I bought on special for $299 and I have replaced the nut and strings which adds another $20. I bought a Brian May guitar which cost me just a shade under $1500 but that was due to me having the money at the time and as my only special guitar I will ever buy due to my financial state. I have spent probably about $500+ on tools and I would say I will probably spend about the same to buy more tools over time. I have 3 non PBG kits and the first PBG kit I got was the cheaper Ricky kit (Runner up GOTM). On each of the 8 kits I have spent between $200-$300 on new pups and various parts on top of the kit price. I have a limited budget and I buy all my guitar parts over a time period to lessen the strain on my money. To be quite honest I have asked myself a series of questions and I will give you my no holds barred answers to be able to answer the original question about the premium price kits.

1. Am I happy with the price of the current kits? YES. My budget allows me to purchase what I want.
2. Am I happy with the quality of the kits I have bought? NO. There are woods and then there are woods.
3. Would I buy a guitar kit with a veneer? NO. Due to all the bad experiences I have read about on the forums about QC and the thickness which I have experienced before on other brand kits.
4. In the future am I going to buy any more PBG kits? YES. I have 1 on order with plans for at least another 3 and I accept I am getting what I pay for but I have the tools and skills to overcome or hide most of the problems I have read about.
5. Which guitar do I like to play the most? My Brian May
6. Which guitar do I play the most? My kit made ones.
7. Would I recommend PBG to friends and family? YES. No question there as you get value for money.
8. If I had unlimited money, would I buy a PBG kit over a higher priced quality kit? NO. Due to hopefully the difference in wood quality.
9. If I had unlimited money, would I buy a premium kit over a store bought brand name? Brand name all the way.
10. Would I pay $800 for a premium quality guitar kit? YES. If it was made of quality wood.
11. How likely am I to buy a $800 premium quality kit? Snowballs chance in hell. My budget would not allow me and I feel there are more than just me here with the same reason.

I keep going back to wood and at this stage I am building a PBG SG bass and re-finishing another company kit SG guitar. I have been putting the bevels around the outside of both guitars and the difference in wood is obvious. When I was rasping on one side the wood was cutting really nice but on the other side the rasp was barely making a mark and when it did come off it was leaving a huge burr. One side was a good wood and the other was like sap wood, very soft and fibrous and a pain to work with. The tone you get from a good wood guitar seems brighter and crisper, defined, but the sound you get from most of the kits I have built seem duller and not as defined or crisp. But I feel the price reflects what you are getting and I for one am quite happy with the current ratio but it has taken me time, tools and experience to be able to get the quality I want.

[Marcel]

In many ways I'd echo Dikkybee007's statement.

If there was a discernible difference in the basic wood types and their grade, or if the figured Maple top was 5mm or 10mm thick instead of 0.6mm, or if the PU's and/or bridges and/or tuners were all branded names, or there were certain aspects to the neck that made it 'more special' or better... then yes, I think there would be many that would seriously consider saving the extra for a better quality kit... but at $800 it is starting to get into doubtful territory. The $400 to $600 range would fare a far better turnover of product.

Sure, offer a few $800 kits, however I think unless they are in some important way "special" many if not most will sit on the shelves for a long time before moving...

On saying that there are plenty who regardless of the supplied hardware would jump at getting an ES kit if it were to be made from the same woods and construction as a real ES. Same could be said for an certain Ash types, or Pine or Alder on a Strat or Tele build. The list of 'specials' could be huge...

There are plenty of kit offerings out there on the cheaper end of the market with most of Basswood and some truly light weights made of Poplar, and there are those builders with $ behind them who will most often build higher end partscasters by buying branded name parts off those huge American guitar parts sellers or seek and pay for those expensive bits that meet their specific tonal needs...and then there is that huge gulf of nothing much in between...

[adam]

Thank for all the great feedback. I have 3 samples on their way (in production now).

I agree with all the comments made in this thread and absolutely, these kits will need to be a significant step up in all facets; timber, craftsmanship, QC, hardware, electronics and pickups. If not, then we would be wasting out time.

When the 3 kits arrive, I'll try and get all the Perth members together for a catch up and we can have a good look at the kits together. Then we can all feed back our thoughts here on the Forum.

Thanks again for all the comments; some of which have clearly had a lot of thought put into them.