Fender and Gibson, the cost is it worth it...Discuss amongst the group.

[Andy40]

If you saw the quality of the Gibson guitars hitting Australian shores back in the late 70's @ early 80's, you would know why they got a bad name, the inlay and fretwork particularly.

Not on all models mind you, it varied year to year, which come to think of it, would of been when Gibson's new owners wanted to move from Kalamazoo [ which had Union labor] to Tennessee, and open a new factory that didn't have union labor.

Subsequently Gibson lost 85% of it's old QA staff, when that big a change happens, things are bound to hit the fan.

The only time they would get a run of a particular model right, if it was the first one, all others varied from the original spec'd...Why this happened.... well self evident really.
You have accountants running a Instrument making company, it's bottom line is the end result that matters in their eyes.... Staff moral, which in turn effects staff pride in what they are building, just creates a ever downward spiral of lesser quality instruments.

The brand suffers as a consequence, the people that caused the demise don't see it as their fault, they recommend further cuts to retain profit margin, consequence is things slip even further into a ever downward spiral.....that's what happened when the corporate raiders ran things into the ground during the 90's

Put the #####$#'s up against the wall, and while your at it, I've got a few names of some Bankers that need to be lined up as well.
I will happily cast the first stone.

Geez Tweaky...where have you been lately haven't seen you in a while.

Good info mate.

[Dedman]

I hear you Tweaky, same thing happened in many industry's. I have a few stones and a packet of gravel, save me a spot.

[Tweaky]

I've having to be testing a video game, that is running well behind release schedule.

Any old Wipeout Anti grav racing fans ?

I'm working with R8 games, pretty much former Studio Liverpool who made the Wipeout games.

http://www.r8games.com/
https://www.facebook.com/R8Games/

I need test pilots that have Steam Access., and a relatively decent PC to game on ...PM Me, if have so.
I'll give you a STEAM test code, only two left.... it will only work until the next test pilot program starts, when that is ????

See my YouTube channel showing the last Formula Fusion build, using 'Mad Max' racing view.....well that's what R8 are calling it...it was a POV in all previous Wipeouts.

https://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U

[Zandit75]

I have a friend in the States who has game rendering and development experience.
I could see if he is interested for you?

[fender3x]

I don't know if the original Fenders were ever really known for their craftsmanship. Leo's genius was as an innovator, both in his for pickups and functional/cool guitar shapes. You don't really hear people talk about the quality of the builds until G&L...and that's his least famous company, and probably the lowest volume when it comes to product.

I think the comments about what happened to Gibson once it stopped being an instrument maker, and started being a vehicle to make money selling instruments.

It used to be that if you made something you created a brand to associate the product and the manufacturer with the brand. That has gotten all turned around now so that someone with a brand that is half way positive you look for mfgs and products to associate with it.

We love Gretch, Guild, Danelectro and silvertones. You can find those labels, but at best the make a knockoff of what the originals were, they rarely innovate. None of them feel "real" to me. Even when they are really good copies, I always feel like they are just that, copies.

It may not be rational, but I can understand why people pay ridiculous prices for a mid 1970s Fender, or a poorly made 1960s strat. (Eric Claprton has a story about making the original Blacky from a bunch of Strats that he took apart in order to fid the parts to make one good one) The quality may not be perfect

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Dedman]

So many companies in so many fields trading on past glory but the fanboys still follow daring not to speak lest they be set upon by villagers with flaming torches.

[fender3x]

So many companies in so many fields trading on past glory but the fanboys still follow daring not to speak lest they be set upon by villagers with flaming torches.

That is nicely said.

It used to be that a brand meant that something was made by the company on the brand.

Now the goal is often to create or appropriate a brand and use it to market products that could be made by anyone, anywhere doing anything. At best, a *major* brand only connotes some level QC, and often not even that. But if brands don't mean anything, all you can do is try to assess quality directly. If you do, you'll end up challenging orthodoxy, and the villagers will come after you.

Part of the problem is that it's very tough to be a good judge of quality about everything, so we tend to accept orthodoxy about some stuff in order not to have to know everything about everything. So, it may relate to who made your guitar, or who made your pots or whether heavy bridges lead to better sustain the lighter ones... mostly we take these things on faith or brand name.

So Fender now makes some good P-basses and some crappy ones. It makes no Stingrays or L2000s or other models that Leo Fender continued to innovate with after leaving Fender. And Music Man and G&L have come to be be almost as frozen in time as Fender when it comes to further innovation. You want an innovation you have to see how these designs are being modded or go to companies like Lakland or Sadowsky...or just DIY by hot-rodding a cheap one or building your own.

It's funny how keyboard players struggle so much less with this. They just go with what ever has the tech, the feel and the sounds they like, and the heck with brand loyalty. There is something about guitars and basses that makes us more susceptible to hype. I have a friend who says it's because we strap the instrument on, and that it generally has sensual curves. One hand is around the back of the neck, the other strokes the body... No wonder we tend to believe there's voodoo in the instrument (which is, of course, true) and also in the company that branded it even though they neither designed it, or even maybe manufactured it which is, of course, nonsense.

[Tweaky]

What can go wrong with a Tele?

Honestly?....pretty much nothing.

Mind you, Jimmy Barnes bought a 52 Tele back in the early 70's and had it 'Re Finished' ... it would have to be the most HORRIBLE TELE I have ever played.
The neck is so narrow, and the string spacing's are absolutely ridiculous ,closer than a Mandolin....impossible to fret a chord with any accuracy, plus the rosewood fretboard is so dried out.... a horrible guitar..... But it's a 52, so some dumb twit will think it's worth more than what Jim payed for it.

Martin Plaza from Mental As Anything had a original maple neck 68 Pailsy Tele that had a neck as bowed as a boomerang, great for slide.

What goes wrong with other guitars, well plenty, a LOT depends on where it resides and how it is kept.

Anybody found a Acoustic Guitar in Darwin that lasts more than 2 years?
The climatic changes put on a guitar form 'Wet' to 'Dry' season in the NT would kill a unprepared owner, let alone the Guitar

[corsair]

Player conservatism plays a huge part in the whole brand name thing as well, I've found. I used a 58 Tele onstage till 1980 when I bought a neck-thru, all singing, all dancing Vantage VA900 which I've never once regretted doing as that guitar and I put up some big miles and sleazy dives over the next 25+ years - never missed a beat and still has it's OEM fittings, though they are a bit tatty these days!! Was even used as a stage intruder punishment device once or twice which still makes me shudder...

Point is, that guitar was, and is, the equal of anything ever made in a guitar factory at any price. Simple as, but other players in an audience would look at it, then you'd see raised eyebrows and pursed lips as they realised it wasn't an Alembic but a Japanese built instrument and they were instantly dismissive of it, even though the sounds it made had made them sit up and take notice in the first place!!

I do have a Strat - heavily, heavily ratted out - which is basically a wall hangar these days as my custom Japs get all the loving these days but the Fender is the one that people recognise when they visit, then they see the other 7 in the living room!!

I'm quite happy for the hoi-polloi to go Fender and Gibson hunting; leaves all those yummy Japs from the 80s for me but I will admit to wanting a Rick 360/12.... I have an electric 12 but a Rick?! Yes, please!

See... I'm as bad as the rest...

[wazkelly]

Hi Corsair, good to have another Ric fan onboard.

I bought a used 4003 about 6 months ago and would dearly love a 360/12 but haven't got the spare $2k - $3.5k that might be required for the right one. Fell in love with the brand when I had an old 70's 4001. For me it is mostly about their unique sound rather than their unique appearance and the playability of the neck on the Basses is outstanding and main reason I saved hard to but another one.

They are the only recognised known brand that I would shell out my hard earned cash for as there is no way you can build a kit or replica to the same standard.