Question about 2HB and 5 way super switch

[bruunm]

Hi Team,

I have Tele style guitar with a mini humbucker and full sized humbucker in the bridge. I'd like to have various spliting options but ALWAYS be noiseless (this being Australia).

I saw this option
1- Bridge HB
2- Outer Coils Parallel.
3- Both HB
4- Inner Coils Parallel
5- Neck HB.

Now I do not know is this is in fact noise cancelling and the diagram I found threw up some questions.

When I look at Pos 2 and 4 it seems to me they both are the same, so how does this actual select inner and outer coils in 2 and 4 respectively? I don't get it. Looks to me like in 2 and 4 both HB are on in split mode. What am I missing here?

https://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/...6&d=1426114545

I also saw this one instead. would that be better?

http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-fxdzp2...00.400.jpg?c=2

Sorry if this is obvious?

Happy to get a different diagram. I also do not need full HBs in Pos3. Think the old PRS Custom24 rotary switching, I loved that and it was never noisy

Cheers
Markus

[WeirdBits]

The first diagram essentially shorts out the unwanted coils in positions 2 and 4, either to ground or the out/hot. So, in position 2 it is shorting the inner coils, and pos 4 it's shorting the outer coils (depending on your specific pickups and how the coils are wired/ordered). 4/5 wire pickups and a 5-way super switch will get you the layout you want.

Another alternative would be a P or E Megaswitch, the instructions show which coils and combos you can do. A Super switch is generally more flexible, but physically a lot fatter.

[Simon Barden]

It all depends how the pickups are constructed (and fitted) as to whether both outer coils would be noise cancelling or not. In any humbucker one coil is reverse wound/reverse polarity to the other. WItha standard slugs + screws humbucker, normally the slugs will be one standard chosen polarity and the screws the other. So unless the pickups have been designed as a pair to work with outer coils together in this manner, (and with it standard to have the screws facing outwards whiles the slugs face inwards), then you'll select both the slug coils or both the screw coils in parallel but without any hum-cancelling ability. You'd really need to use a magnet to check the polarity of the coils of your two pickups. Doesn't need to be absolute - you just need to know which coil on each pickup attracts the magnet and which repels it. They you'd need to select one coil on on pickup and the opposite polarity coil on the other to get a measure of hum cancelling.

[Old Tooth Hopkins]

I looked into this a while ago - also be careful that the 5 way super switch also take up more real estate than a standard Tele rout. You would need to mod that to fit.

[bruunm]

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies. First up, I missed that one of the "split" sides (bottom left row) goes to hot on volume pot and the other split goes to earth (like expected).

however what I do not completely understand is how this will do select one or the other (sorry, just doesn't compute).

I will try and test the coils with magnets and then work out how to wire it for a test.

This guitar already comes with a big cavity as guitar was fitted with a super switch. However I ripped all the pickup out as I thought they were the source of muffled or "dead" sound due to being a heavy players signature guitar. So I put more modest PAF and mini humbucker in there with similar result. I then ripped out then entire harness as guitar sounded bright and lush (hahah me and describing sound) when wired directly to output. But now can't get it back to being noiseless in all positions.

I ended up with original neck mini HB in there again.

Oh the guitar is a Chapman ML3 Bea. Truly a great build quality, but I am just not totally happy with tone yet... Sounds killer for anything from mild OD up but cleans are lacking some magic or air around the notes and yes I do not expect it to replace my Tele or Strat for cleans, but more than this would be nice... Maybe I need to buy WD 550k pots. Currently I have got some old stock CTS pots that I had laying around.

This image from me trying with a vintage hot stack SD in neck... didn't take...



Never ends

Thanks again all!

[WeirdBits]

This is pretty crude, but hopefully it will explain what the switch is doing.

If you think of the humbucker like this: it has a negative/ground (- in), positive/hot (+ out), and a series link connecting the two coils of the pickup (the two joined wires, usually red & white).

-
\
coil 1
/
\
coil 2
/
+

One coil is magnetically north the other is south and they are wound in opposite directions, which gives it the hum cancelling properties when combined. Which coil is first in the chain can vary between types and manufactuers, so I haven't labelled their polarity.

The splitting the super switch is doing in positions 2 & 4 is achieved by 'shorting' the unwanted coils. Its four separate poles (banks/sides/plates) are used to selectively short out the unwanted coils to either hot or ground. In some cases, and if the switch has enough poles, you can just switch a connection rather than short a coil, but you get the idea.

So, if you only want the 2nd coil you short the series link between the coils to ground, which then becomes the path of least resistance for the signal, and the 1st coil is bypassed.

-
|\
| coil 1
|/
\
coil 2
/
+

If you only want the 1st coil you short the series link between the coils to the out/hot, which again becomes the path of least resistance, and the 2nd coil is bypassed.

-
\
coil 1
/
|\
| coil 2
|/
+

When you are combining two split pickups and want hum cancelling you need the two split coils to be a north/south opposite wound pair, otherwise it won't cancel the hum. This is where Simon's important point applies. Depending on how the pickups are wound and assembled (especially dissimilar pickups and/or different manufacturers) the split outer coil pair and inner coil pair may not be hum cancelling when combined.

If you can find the colour coding and/or wiring instructions for each pickup that you're using it will help to work out what's what. But, as Simon stated, you will need to do some testing. Magnets and multimeters are best. However, using clip leads to connect the coils directly to a lead hooked up to a headphone amp can help you work out which wire pairs connect to each coil. And, by combining a coil with another pickup's coil you can soon hear if it is hum cancelling. 'Phase' can also be an issue, especially combining different brand pickups, and that's harder to detect. A multimeter can do it but often it's not until you strum in anger that you really notice.

Does that help?

(Edit: this video may be of use for testing pickups)

[bruunm]

Hi Scott,

Awesome, thanks I believe I got it.

Will do some testing over the weekend.

I actually replaced the power tubes in my TwoRock yesterday and the clarity return somewhat to the guitar (guitars for that matter), but I may still get the WD 550K pots just to open the top end slightly.

So could I wire it as in my diagram and then change the hot and earth wire on one of the pickups to change its selection to make it oposite to second Pickup? would that work?

Thanks again! I really appreciate the time you took to type all that out!

I will let you know how I went.

Cheers

Markus

[Simon Barden]

What TwoRock have you got, Bruunm? I've got a Studio Pro 22 1x12". I swapped out the stock speaker for a Celestion Creamback 65 about 6 months ago, as that seemed to be the preferred upgrade speaker. Not sure if it made a huge difference as the original WGS speaker was pretty good.

[bruunm]

I have the EXO15 with an "empty" TR Crystal Combo (only the cabinet/Combo and speaker, no amp. My mate is sponsored by TR and got it with wrong tolex). It has the WGS speaker installed and its very very nice ;-)

It is a phenomenal pedal platform...

[Simon Barden]

Nice. And nicer to have a friend sponsored by TR!