First build LP-1SS

[Garz666]

I have always been partial to Fender and Jackson Guitars as my first was a 72 Stratocaster ( which I regretably destroyed on stage 25 years ago ). I keep buying lower end (Mexican/Indonesian) Fenders which were customer returns or demo guitars and putting 20 hours and $100's to customize and set them up properly. I always wanted a Les Paul so my wife decided to buy me a kit so I can do it myself. I am pretty proficient with the electronics and general setup but what I will be asking alot of questions about is the finish and clear coats.

Anxiously awaiting my Kit to arrive.

[Simon Barden]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Hope your build goes well. Any plans on what sort of finish and clear-coat materials you'll be using yet?

[Garz666]

I have been looking and I think TransTint Honey Amber and Dark Vintage Maple in a burst. I chose this because I dont want to use water as the base because it may lift off the veneer and raise the grain. Not really sure what to seal it with or what kind of gloss cote to use but hope to get some info before I get to this point.

Will this kit need to be pre-sanded before the stain is what I whant to know and prepare for.

[Simon Barden]

Generally no need to sand the veneer before staining, it's best to apply any stain, let it dry and then sand back. Note that a lot of the grit references used on this forum are the European P range of grits - which are the same as the US grit standards up to 220 grit, but above that then the US grits are finer for a given grit size. Here's one comparison table https://www.fine-tools.com/G10019.html. Some of the finishes take better if the surface isn't too smooth.

You'll first need to check for glue lines or spots - typically at the veneer join down the middle and round the edges by the binding. Whilst paint doesn't have much of an issue with these, a lot of stains won't penetrate the wood well enough with a film of glue on top.

There's a product called GoofOff which is recommended for removing glue lines and spots - use sparingly multiple times rather than a big soak - as you might just soak through to the glue holding the veneer on. Not sure if it's available in the US, but google the product and you should be able to source a similar product.

If you've got obvious grain holes - especially noticeable round the edges, then you probably want to grain-fill first with a filler that will take a stain - either afterwards or stain the grain-filler as part of the staining process. You'll need to sand back after filling, so be careful and don't use too coarse a grit.

[Garz666]

Thanks Simon. I'm sure I will be bugging you for info on the finishing. I was checking out your build threads and was wondering if the burst on that hollow body was sprayed on after a laquer coat? Also what would you recomend for clear finishing coats. It looks like you are using a spray rig but are there any you could recomend that comes from a can?

Thanks

[Simon Barden]

Initially after grain filling I sprayed the top and back with a sanding sealer, rubbed this down and applied the yellow stain. I then sprayed some tinted amber lacquer coats, (for a slightly darker look),then some clear coats over that, then did the red and brown sunbursting. If the stain had been slightly darker to start with, then I could have simply done a clear lacquer coat. The sides were just tobacco lacquer over the sanding sealer.

I was generally following the method described in the StewMac (Stewart MacDonald) book 'Guitar Finishing Step-By-Step' for an old Gibson sunburst. But most parts of the book can be found on the StewMac website. It's often just handier to have it in book form so you can have it by your side for reference without risking getting paint all over your iPad. http://www.stewmac.com/

In hindsight, a darker initial stain would probably have been a better way to do it, as I ended up taking too much time (especially with the refinish) before trying to scrape the lacquer off the binding. As a result it had dried on very hard, which then takes ages to remove. As long as the finish has a day to dry so that it can be handled without leaving marks, then that's the time to scrape the bindings as it will be a lot easier.

My first spray job was refinish of an old Harmony H59, and I used spray cans for that. I found a couple of places selling nitrocellulose spray cans in the classic colours for guitar finishing in the UK, so I'm sure you'll find plenty in the USA. StewMac do a small range of 13oz aerosol cans in some of the classic colours, but Googling should find plenty of other suppliers e.g. "Daphne blue aerosol guitar lacquer" should give you lots of hits. I expect most will be internet/mail-order.

Spray cans can work very well, though I did find that some contents were just right, whilst some were a bit thinner and tended to run more easily, whilst others were thicker and occasionally tended to splutter - leaving larger blobs of paint than normal on the surface - not what you want when doing a sunburst edge. But for solid colour finishes, they are fine and with a bit of patience they can produce good results for sunbursts as well.

Temperature and humidity is important for spraying. A bit too cold and the lacquer will run more easily, colder still (or in high humidity) and the finish will haze over due to trapped moisture. Too hot, and the lacquer can dry out too much in the air before hitting the wood, leaving a powdery finish. 72°F to 79°F (22°C-25°C) is a good spraying temperature range, and 55% r.h. or below. Avoid spraying below 57°F/14°C.

If it is a bit colder than optimal in the spray area, then keep the paint and guitar parts in the warm until it's time to spray. You can even warm spray cans in warm (not too hot) water beforehand, which helps keep the paint thin.

Always wear a mask that's suitable for paint spraying (normally consists of a HEPA filter and carbon filter) as you don't want to get the paint in your lungs, and the solvents in nitro are harmful to breathe, so you do need a well ventilated area - or else an area you can close up to spray in, let the lacquer touch dry so dust doesn't blow onto it, and then open up a door to let the fumes escape.

It's a very good idea to wear thin rubber or disposable gloves when spraying, as the solvents can enter your body through the skin, and you may need to hold parts whilst spraying.

Instead of nitro, you can use standard car spray paints, which are almost all acrylic-based these days. Less harmful solvents - but still wear a mask. Acrylic paints take longer to cure than nitro, so leave longer between coats otherwise it's easy to get an unset layer of paint trapped under another layer. Makes it hard to get a good finish.

And the longer you can leave the finish drying after the final clear coat goes on, the better your final shine will be. One week is the bare minimum in optimum temperatures and humidities, two weeks should be OK, but three weeks is even better.

[Garz666]

Finally received my kit and Guitar Finishing Step by Step. Wow what a lot of information, almost too much. Simon, do you have a grain filler that you would recomend for staining? I am assuming that I will only do the low spots in the grain and not the entire guitar. Just so I am clear the sequence is 1 - Filler 2 - Sanding and Sealer 3 - Stain 4 - Laquer. I know it's a dumb question but I want to make sure I understand the basic process so I don't F up this beautifull Spaulted Maple veneer.

Thanks

[Zandit75]

Nice looking splat Garz!
Personally, I wouldn't recommend grain filling on spalted tops. All I did with my spalted LP was a light sand, then straight into the clear Dingotone stain.
Keep in mind too, the veneer is super thin, and any excessive sanding could go straight through it. Plus you run the risk of hiding some of the spalt under the grain filler.
Just something to consider.

[stan]

Wow great looking kit, this should turn out well

[andrewdosborne]

Spalt-tastic! Some more spalty goodness in the making it should turn out great

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