First build JMA-1

[jtimms]

Hi all,

Just waiting for my first kit to arrive - JMA-1. Planning on finishing the kit for my son as a Christmas present.

While I waiting for the delivery hoping to get some advice from the experts on finishes for the guitar.

My son has been asking for an electric similar to the Kurt Mustang from Smells Like Teen Spirit. The competition Lake Placid Blue guitar like the one in the attached images.







To start with I was hoping for advice on the right colours and where to source them?

As far as I can tell the Lake Placid Blue is a metallic version of the Ditlzer PPG paint code 11711, I haven't a clue where to get it though.

Also, I have no idea what the competition stripe colour would be.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

No doubt once it all arrives I will be back seeking more advice!

Thanks in advance,
J

[jtimms]

So the kit should be arriving in a day or so.

I have been to check out Supercheap Auto and they can make up the paint using the GM code 122.

When I was looking at it though it comes out a bit more blue than the images - I suspect Fender used a different clear from what I understand.

Does anyone have experience using the Supercheap spray cans with a poly coat? I was debating applying something like Cabot Cabothane clear over the top, hoping it added a slight yellow tinge to the blue.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Also, when looking at the guides for the spray cans, it looks like the recommend waiting 60 days post clear before applying any wax etc to the paint. I suppose this is to ensure the paint has fully flashed - If I was to use a poly as a clear instead of the Supercheap Colorspec clear coat, would I need to wait 60 days between spraying and applying the poly?

Cheers,
J

[McCreed]

Hi jtimms.

I'll just point out a few bits re: your questions.

If you're spraying acrylic lacquer for the colour base coat, you can't put Cabot polyurethane over it. They are incompatible products*. You will need to apply an acrylic lacquer clear for the top coat, and yes, you will need to (or should) wait 3-4 weeks before wet sanding, polishing etc. You will definitely have some amount of "orange peel" from spraying that will require levelling by sanding/wet sanding.

As for SCA clear, I have only used their tinned version for spray gun and had no issues with it, but TTBOMK others have had good results with the rattle cans. FWIW before I switched to a gun, I preferred Septone brand (also at SCA) over the Duplicolor clear.

*FYI, the "poly" finish you see advertised on mass-produced brand name guitars is a very different material than what you buy at Bunnings. It is generally a 2-pack product not a single-pack like the Cabots, and if just labelled "poly" in the description or specs, it could be a polyurethane OR a polyester (similar but different).

Sorry for the brief reply. I'm away on holiday and not doing much social atm. I'm sure one of the other members will reply with more explicit guidance and advice.

Cheers

[jtimms]

Thanks McCreed, appreciate the advice!

I think the original Lake Placid Blue was covered in a nitro clear (I said poly...) which added a slight yellowing to the LPB leaving it with a slight green tinge. Do you know if there is clear that I could use that might have a similar effect that would work with the SCA paint?

The kit arrived this afternoon, unboxing was exciting.

Couple of minor issues I came across:

1) The neck appears to have the head stock alread cut - Not blank as expected.

2) The pickgaurd isn't as clean along the edges as I expected, but thats fine I guess as I was going to cut a diffent colour anyway.

I had a query about the neck pocket - I tried to get a photo of the neck and body interface, but it was a little challenging. How close should the radius on the bottom of the neck match the body?



The neck in this kit looks to be sitting on the corners only - Is this normal?

Cheers,
J

[jtimms]

I’m keen to get into the prepping and painting worried I have now left it too late for Xmas..

For the body it’s straight forward, primer, base and clear.

For the neck I’d like some advice if possible. The head stock will have a colour applied to the front, but the back and sides I was planning for a natural finish.

Does anyone have any advice as to the suitability to apply the colorspec clear coat direct to wood?

Alternatively, is there a wood product that someone can recommend that will go over the spray can paint well?

Additionally, will I need to apply a pore filler prior to any spraying and if so can someone recommended a product?

Cheers,
J

[Simon Barden]

I've almost no experience with acrylic sprays, so can't really comment, but the Colorspec 2k clear coat info doesn't give it as suitable for wood (though they may just have thought it wouldn't be used on wood so didn't list it). But I know others have used acrylic clears on necks, so it might be OK. It shouldn't sink much into a maple neck. Or you may need to apply a normal 1K acrylic coat first. I just don't know.

The ash will need pore filling a sit's an open-pore wood. The maple neck won't. Timbermate is the pore filler that's most commonly used here, but being water-based, it can shrink, especially if you don't leave it fora few weeks to shrink naturally before sanding back and continuing to paint. But I'm not sure what other pore fillers would work well. As you are painting it, you could try a UV curing resin to seal the wood as that shouldn't shrink - plus it only takes a few minutes in sunlight to harden fully.

The end of the neck should ideally match the curve of the neck pocket, so if there's a big gap as it's only touching at the corners, I'd certainly work on the end of the neck with a file. I've used chalk on the pocket walls before. Push the neck in, and where there's chalk, it's touching, so you need to file off those bits. Repeat until you've got chalk over most of the end of the neck. You'll never get a perfect fit (unless CNC machinery was used to rout out both the neck and the pocket, and the Chinese factories don't use CNC on the kits). As it's a 22-fret neck, it's got that overhang which will hide any small gaps - which will be between the scratchplate and the neck, rather than the body and neck.

The original 'clear' nitro finish of the 50s and early 60s was slightly amber in tint, and yellowed more with exposure to UV (many of the first 'TV yellow' LP Jrs had a white base coat, it was the lacquer that made them look yellow). Modern clear nitrocellulose lacquer is still very slightly amber tinted, but far less so than the earlier stuff and far more stable under UV.

So the best way to get an 'aged clear' finish is to use a light amber tinted lacquer, followed by some clear coats for protection (you could just use tinted amber for all the coats but it would probably end up too dark/yellow). Tinted amber is easy to obtain in spray can nitro, but not in acrylic. You might fine somewhere that will make up a light amber tinted clear for you (I know a lot of Supercheap stores have a custom paint mixing service - but I don't know if that applies to clears), or if you have a spray gun, you can get tints for acrylic lacquers that you add yourself.

[McCreed]

The SCA website does not say if the Colorspec is Acrylic Enamel or Acrylic Lacquer (and they don't provide any MSDS online). Nor am I certain that the two are compatible, but my gut tells me that I would not put Acrylic Lacquer over Enamel or vice versa. Pretty sure they have different solvents which is a potential problem.

(Maybe Phrozin will chime in with more detailed expertise???)

I can say from personal experience that clear acrylic lacquer can absolutely be applied onto timber. I also know that the Duplicolor range of auto paints are a single pack acrylic lacquer, and I have applied both Septone Clear Coat and SCA's Acrylic Lacquer Clear Coat over the Duplicolor bases without issue (other than operator error )

Personally I prefer polyurethane (satin) for my necks over any type of lacquer. It just feels better to me. Been strictly using poly on necks for 3 of 4 years now. I have even gone so far as to strip a lacquered neck and re-spray it with polyurethane.

As for tinting on a maple neck, I have never seen a tinted Acrylic Lacquer in a rattle can, only Nitrocellulose. Not saying it doesn't exist, just not seen it before.
If using clear acrylic or polyurethane from a rattle can, you can achieve an amber tint one of two ways. You can lightly stain the maple, or apply a number of coats of shellac (naturally amber coloured) then apply the clear over the shellac.

I will caution that applying stain to the maple first can result in an uneven colouring, but not always.

[jtimms]

Thanks McCreed and Simon,

The gap at the neck pocket is about 2-3mm, but its hidden by the fret board so a little hard to see. PBG said it should be fine as is, but I think I will have a crack at reshaping the neck to fit the pocket over the weekend. With this, you would reshape the neck to fit the pocket right?

I had a chat to the tech support at Colorspec today. He was very helpful.

To paint the body, he recommended prepping the body as for any wood (grain filling etc), followed by a normal water based wood primer - Roller onto the body. Followed by sanding smooth to about 400 grit. The sanding sounds like fun...

After than, a light coat of their primer, slight rub with 600 grit, base coat (2-3 coats) and clear. He recommended no more than about 6 coats of clear total. He said 4 coats should come up nicely, but if more was desired a slight rub back after 4 coats with 1500 grit before a max of 2 more clear coats. It seemed to me he was more concerned around their clear adding a slight yellow tinge to the paint if too many layers were added - Maybe this is something I am after..

Im guessing that I will need to leave a week or two after grain filling before priming, then another week or two after priming before spraying to make sure there is no water trapped in the paint / wood - Would that be about right?

For the headstock, he said their clear SHOULD bond to the bare wood, but if it was his project he wouldn't attempt it.

He recommended starting with normal water based or acrylic wood lacquer on the back of the neck, once that has been applied then having a go at the front of the headstock in their base / clear system (per above). For the joint of the lacquer and their clear, he said after the colour has been applied to create a false edge so their clear coat overlaps the lacquer which should bond well and can be polished back to form an invisble line.

@McCreed I know I have seen it in one of your previous posts, but can acrylic lacquer over the top of a poly clear? Mainly just looking at the joint between the front face of the headstock and the natural finish on the back and sides.

Thanks,
J

[Simon Barden]

The gap at the neck pocket is about 2-3mm, but its hidden by the fret board so a little hard to see. PBG said it should be fine as is, but I think I will have a crack at reshaping the neck to fit the pocket over the weekend. With this, you would reshape the neck to fit the pocket right?

As there's no one at PBG (according to PBG) who actually builds guitars (or engages with customers on this forum), or is able to check kits before they go out with obvious faults, I'd take that comment with a pinch of salt.

You also have to consider the scale length issue. If the neck is basically moved back 2-3mm from the end of the pocket, then the bridge saddles have to move the same amount further forwards. You'll have to see if this works with the bridge supplied. The bridge post holes are pre-drilled, so you are reliant on the neck being set the right distance from the bridge.

You'll need to check on your kit what the best neck position is. Wrap tape around the posts so they fit securely in the holes without fitting the post inserts, then with the neck in position, measure the distance from the nut high E slot to the high E bridge saddle (at the point the string will stop contacting the saddle) with the saddle set almost all the way forwards. Use a metal rule (not a tape) to measure the scale length. If it's longer than 25.5" (647.7mm), then you'll definitely need to round the end of the neck heel so it fits in the pocket properly and so moves the neck nearer the bridge. If it's that distance or a bit shorter, then you're OK.

[jtimms]

Yeah, I wasn’t overly convinced with the advice from PBG.

Checked the scale length, definitely out by 2-3mm.

Slowly working in the neck corners when the little one heads out with the boss. So far looks like the neck has moved forward about a mm or so. Once I get it roughly flush I’ll post some photos of the sanded areas of the neck.