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I'm halfway through my mock build (TLA-1). Bridge (aftermarket), neck and strings are in but the neck angle doesn't look right. Even with a concave bow, strings are touching the 22nd fret. I could try raising the saddles very high to make up for it but it doesn't sound like the correct fix. Should I shim the neck or should I save the neck pocket at the correct angle (sounds hard to do)? Any body here had to deal with that and can provide a bit of advice?
Thank you.
- Marcelo
Had the same thing with my JTL kit. You need to shim the headstock end of the pocket until the strings aren’t touching.
Then use some feeler gauges to measure how thick the gap is from the shim. Write that measurement down.
Remove the neck and measure the thickness of the neck at the heel with some digital calipers (both bass side and treble side) Write these measurements down too.
Now with the neck clamped on your bench with the screw holes facing up, You need to use a hard sanding block (very important) with some 80grit to sand the body end of the neck heel. You want to take off the thickness you measured with the feeler gauge at the start. I sanded to about halfway between the 4 screw holes on mine.
Keep stopping and checking with the digital calipers to make sure you’re sanding it evenly.
Long story short: if the shim needed to be 2mm and your neck heel is 60mm, you need to sand it to 58mm.
Hi Marcelo,
Not detracting from the sage advice given by Richy17, which is a cool way to do it if you have a real problem wiht the neck heel.
but
I would caution against modifying the neck join (as a first point of call) as its unlikely to be the culprit. the CNC routing is usually fine.
I would check in order,
1. the straightness of the neck, first with sight then with a notched straight edge, (it should be straight not convex or concave) - there is no neck angle coming out of the neck pocket on a TLA-1;
2. the levelling of the frets, use a fret rocker or some stanley knife blades as a fret rocker. Its unlikley that the frets are levelled at all well straight out of the box. (do not level the frets until the neck is straight)
3. the nut height. (I think this will be the culprit) they are always Waaay too high and I high nut with low saddles means string drag at the 22nd fret.
4. the saddle height. You'd be surprised as to how high a tele neck sits above the body and how high the saddle sit.
If you have tried all of that and it still doesn't work can you post some pictures please and we will try and help.
Andy is right, I probably should have said to do this as a last resort 👍🏻
If only it was CNC routing, there would be less problems with the kits! But Adam has stated that they are simply done by hand using templates, which does introduce room for error, especially as the templates wear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy40
Mcamelo, as Andy says, photos will help.
Aftermarket bridge may have some impact as well, mine (basses) have all had some impact on the setup as they are not the same height as the kit ones. Shims may not need to be as severe as 2mm - start with a piece of paper - hit it with some spraypaint (drench it), let it dry and use that to build up a shim - may only need one or two small shims of paper.
Thank you all for your suggestions.
Neck is completely flat (checked with a fretboard straight edge). Frets around the 22nd are level. Nut is pretty high but so it the saddle so not an issue here.
Yes, the aftermarket bridge sits lower than the stock. So this could be the main offender.
Photos with the D string installed:
Attachment 29586 I have the saddle as tall it can go.
Attachment 29587 But it is still too close to the fretboard.
I'm keen on the aftermarket bridge so it looks like I will have to deal with the issue at the neck pocket or heel.
I've measured the depth of the pocket and it is around 18.80 +/- .20 mm. Is that the expected depth? If so, I will adjust the neck heel as I feel that is the safest path.
Thoughts?
Could you shim the bridge to elevate it?
I definitely could but it is not the kind of look I'm going for. Bridge flush to body is a requirement in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by churchie
Looking at that second photo, neck looks very tall against the top of the body but I have only a set neck PRS to compare it to. Would anyone be able to measure how tall their Tele's neck is measured from the body's top?
My two Fender Teles have the neck around 7-8mm proud of the body (with no scratchplate fitted).
You don't want the saddles sitting too low, otherwise you'll have the grub screws sitting very proud of the saddles and poking into your palm. Ideally you'd have them level with, or just below the level of the top of the saddles.
A shim doesn't have to be very thick to have quite a large impact, as its height is scaled up by around a factor of 5 (length from bridge to far end of pocket ÷ pocket length), so you'd probably want a 1mm shim.
I'm not a fan of having a shim at the headstock end of the pocket, but as has been described by others, it's easy to do and will give you an idea of how much wood needs to be removed if you then decide to adjust the heel or neck pocket. Personally I think it would be a lot easier to adjust the neck heel, rather then try and make the body end of the neck pocket 1mm or so deeper.
Thanks Simon. The neck on my tele is sitting at 9-10mm, so it looks like I'm about 2mm too tall. I agree that shaving the heel is the way to go but I'll certainly do multiple measures, calculations and prototypes before removing any bit of wood from the neck.
Question about the screws: if I do eventually change the neck angle, that will cause the screw to curve by the same amount when exiting the pocket holes and entering the neck's. Would that be a problem? Should the pocket holes be drilled larger than the screw so they drop through?
The pocket holes should be just big enough for the screws to fit in without catching the wood. Then when you screw the neck on, the screws are really pulling the neck down into the pocket. If the screw holes are the same size in the neck and body, then there is no guarantee that when the screws are tightened that they stop turning because they are as far into the body holes as they can go, but that there still isn't a very slight gap between the neck and the pocket. The screws will still hold the neck in place, but maybe not as firmly as they could do.
Also, once the guitar is assembled and strung up to normal tension, then undo each neck screw slightly, probably only a quarter turn, until you hear a small 'crack' from each one (as the neck moves very slightly), then do the screws back up again. This lets the string's tension pull the neck as firmly against the rear of the pocket as they can, giving the best overall contact between the neck and the body as you are going to get. On some guitars, this may do nothing noticeable, but on others it can noticeably increase the sustain. As it take at most 30 seconds to do, costs nothing and won't have any negative effect on the guitar, it's always worth giving it a go.
According to the internet, fixing the pocket is the right way to go so one can preserve one's neck's standard dimensions. A router would be the right tool for the job. Thing is, at 16mm, my pocket is at the standard depth, while the neck, at 26.5, is 1 mm too tall. So I took the neck to the grinder.
I masked the heel to about 1 mill short of the bottom as markings and sanded it flat against a sheet of 80G taped to the bench top. It was a bit of a challenge to sand it flat but the end result was quite satisfactory.
Here are a couple photo of what she is looking like now (with saddles lowered to very reasonable heights):
Attachment 29591 Attachment 29592
PS: in the topic of the pocket holes, I've found this. I will be doing that tomorrow before I can declare this neck business mission accomplished.
Thank you all for your input.
I'd try for fixing the pocket if the neck angle needed to be increased, as it's (relatively) easy to sand the headstock end of the pocket down a bit and keep the floor of the pocket level.
But there's no particularly easy way (that I can think of) to sand the body end of the pocket down as evenly without almost certainly creating some unevenness. An experienced woodworker might be able to chisel the wood out, and those with good routing skills might be able to make up a suitable jig, but for the majority of kit builders, altering the neck heel is the easiest way to decrease the neck angle (apart from a shim at the headstock end of the neck heel).
Good work on your neck heel. All looking great now.