Irish ES-1 / 335 Copper Top

Hello from sunny (lol) Northern Ireland,

Well the wait for the kit to arrive is over and its finally time to start the build. That was a long wait but Adam was great in his correspondence. I've built 2 or 3 *ender partcasters and refinished a Les Paul over the past few years so hopefully this has built up the skill level enough to build the dream copper top 335.

I only purchased the raw wood for the kit, as I have a slightly unconventional pickup selection and wiring planned, and I have to say that first impressions are good. It does make you appreciate why high end manufacturers charge what they do for instruments and that's because of the attention to detail in the finishing process which the kit is lacking slightly. Test fitting the neck and there is a good tight fit and it seems not bad at all. Haven't checked the break angle or scale length yet but fingers crossed.

F hole bindings needed a bit of fine filing, binding at the neck joint had been cut long and needed filing back flush but this is minor cosmetic work. Neck pickup pocket slightly too small but this has been covered in posts by others and was quick and easy to sort out. POT holes were drilled at 8mm so had to open these up to 10mm to allow the CTS ones to fit. Another simple enough job.

Front binding was meant to be single ply to match the back and F hole binding but unfortunately 3 ply was installed in the factory. Adam was happy enough to offer a slight discount that would cover the cost of purchasing some single ply to fit if that's how I decide to go but for now I believe that I can work with what I have.

Once I figure out how to get a photo to upload I will put a few up of what was received and what the plans are.

Jb

Hopefully the test fit picture will be below along with the copper patina parts

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jbuller7

Front binding was meant to be single ply to match the back and F hole binding but unfortunately 3 ply was installed in the factory.

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Nice.

It's pretty obvious to me now that the factories simply aren't capable of fitting custom bindings to bodies. Same thing happened on my custom ES-1. All other changes were correct, except the binding.

Still, if you are doing a copper paint finish, or fitting copper sheet to the top, then you could go over the binding just leaving the outer thin white strip visible. Not really any different than if you did just have the single-ply binding fitted. It's only clear/translucent finishes where you can't do that.

Are you thinking about using some of the aged copper Schaller hardware? Looks great, but it's not cheap.

Yeah, I got the 3 ply treatment with my custom too. :rolleyes:

Its a shame but as Simon says (lol) I can work right up to the edge of the last ply which is what I plan to do. Adam reckoned that they didn't have a template for single ply.

Not painting at all apart from a base coat of blue on the cap and gloss black on the headstock. I've been practicing with Copper leaf and the aging process has been achieved with a spray of vinegar / hydrangea plant food mix.
Plan on keeping the tail, bridge and tuners in chrome for the contrast of old and new and it helps tie the pickup pole pieces in with the rest of the guitar. The celtic detail on the speed knobs is silver as well and will probably do something similar with headstock logo

Sounds like a great plan. Hope it all works really well.

Are you using a side mounted jack instead of the usual (on a 335) top mounted one? Top mounting it is rather a weak point of the 335 design, especially if you use standard straight jacks. I once bought a used 335 with a large washer around the jack socket where the surrounding wood had obviously split a bit after a jack/object encounter.

Yes, requested that the jack was side mounted rather than top mounted. Top mounted always seemed like a design flaw to me. Been flicking through your builds and im very impressed.

I still need to finish a PBG kit. Done a couple of guitar refinishes in the meantime and got a couple of kit guitars on the cusp, but either the weather or setbacks or bad depression days when I really can't do anything without it all going horrible wrong keep stopping me. I may just polish up the EX-1 and put it all together for now, then finish it off with clear coats next May (or whenever it's warm enough).

Good to see the 335 wearing hearing protection... safety first!!!

Good luck on your build. Sounds like you have a clear idea where you want it to go. Look forward to seeing it progress.

Cheers,
Mick

Well I unexpectedly ended up b4lls deep in this build over the weekend. Too frosty to get anything done in the garden so I went to work...
First up I decided that I needed to get some Danish oil on the neck, back and sides to protect the wood from being stained by dirty hands. Gentle sanding with 400 & 600 grit and 2 coats on and its turned out the same way my test maple had which is always a relief. Need to add another few layers closer to the end of the build.

Once fully dried in I made a few fine adjustments to the neck joint and i'm pretty satisfied that it will pull tight into place once I glue and clamp.

Time to start working on the top now the back and neck are protected. Very few blemishes on the cap so I decided to mask her up and spray a coat of blue undercoat. This was to seal the surface enough for the size to work on rather than just soaking into the bare wood. The plan was to then knock this back to highlight any low spots so that minimal filler could be used. 2 coats on and i'm happy that the finish is suitable for the next phase so only 1 tiny spot of filler was needed.

Then started the nerve wreaking job of scraping the binding... Stanley knife blade wrapped in masking tape seemed to do the trick very well. Watched so many YouTube videos on making long flowing passes but that's easier said than done. Horns / bouts are tricky wee buggers and the F hole binding was on a whole other level but a few cups of coffee and some sore fingers later i'm happy. Light sanding finished off the weekends work and now we're ready to start the fun job of applying the copper leaf...

Looking great.

Scraping binding isn't ever particularly easy, but it's a lot easer when you haven't left the finish to dry for several weeks but scrape it as soon as you can after spraying.

And I'm sure that you'll have to do it again after the copper finish goes on.

That's a nice thin layer of paint you've got there. I can still see some of the flame in the maple through it.

Thanks Simon.
I had that problem before when I refinished my Les Paul copy and left the nitro for about 2 weeks and it nearly ended up as fire wood.
Yes there will be another pass done once the copper is on and then the back binding will be done between the final coat of oil and the first coat of lacquer.
Many layers of thin dries much easier in this cold weather and there is nothing worse than trying to sand back a run as it never looks right.
Have an hour or 2 free this evening before the boss gets home so i'll get all set up on the kitchen table in the heat and hopefully get the first layer of copper on while I wait on the bone nut arriving.

I can't wait to see this one finished. Looking good so far mate.

Got an hour or so at it last night after work so laid up the first layer of copper leaf. I forgot how messy a job this was but it coming out ok so far. Another couple of layers and then i'll tidy up the binding again.

Got the truss rod tightened up on the neck as well and it straightened out very well. Quick cleaning and first wipe down in lemon oil for the fretboard has brought it up a treat. Mat need to wet/dry fret 1 & 2 as the grain is very rough here but i'll see what happens as I get more moisture back into the wood and make a call from there.

Came across a minor issue though... I had planned on having the bridge pickup taped which would then give me P90 neck and a single coil or 59 humbucker bridge. Only problem is that the push / pull POT does not fit through the F hole. Has anyone any knowledge of a smaller / mini push/pull? The alternative may be to install a small toggle switch but i'd prefer the push/pull POT.

Thanks

What one have you got? Push-pulls normally have mini pots anyway, so you won't get ones with a smaller pot. If it's depth that's your issue, then CTS do shallower units (1" deep) but have a full-sized pot. I have one and it doesn't fit through the F-hole of my half- finished 335 kit.

What about using a revised control layout and use a potentiometer to do the coil split?

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/t...in-a-split-mod

You could have a master tone control if you wanted one, so you ended up with P90 volume, '59 vol + split pot and a master tome control? What I don't know (and that article doesn't say) is if a lin or log (or even anti-log) pot is best for the coil split one.

Forgot to say that the copper foil looks great! How many layers are you putting on?

That's a very interesting idea about the spin-a-split mod. Hadn't thought of that option. Need to look into it a bit as i'd think that you would need to use a master tone nob then. Great thought. I'd have thought that you'd use a linear POT but will sit and do a wiring diagram with my tech wizard and see what he comes up with.

Its a CTS push/pull that I have with the plastic section attached to the bottom of the slim body so no chance that its getting through the f hole.

I've 2 coats of copper done so far. Will probably do a 3rd and then I will do a trial run at the tarnishing. The plan would be to do a trial tarnishing job and then repeat with another 3 layers and a final tarnishing job. As you can see in the pictures you can still see the wood grain through the copper so I want at least 5-6 in total before clear coating over the top.

You've got the same style CTS pot as me then. In which case a push/pull or push/push pot with a mini pot will fit through the hole OK. I've got a mini-pot push/push pot handy, and that fits in the F-hole without problems. It's about 3mm deeper overall, so you may have to twist the unit a bit to get it up through the hole in the body (so don't use too stiff a harness) but it should fit. You should have a bit more height to play with if you put the switched pot in the volume pot, rather than tone pot, position.

Attachment 32915

I'm sure I got the pot from here: http://www.axetec.co.uk/guitar_parts_uk_053.htm

Great link for those mini pots. Looks like just the ticket. Will have a head scratch about it tonight as the blending idea was a good one

Partly depends on whether you use the tone pots much and/or could live with a common tone. It just means the single tone pot is connected to the output of the 3-way switch, rather than having two, each connected to the input (or output if you prefer '50s wiring) of the associated volume pot.

One other aspect of mixing and matching normal and switched pots is making sure that they all have the same number of splines on the shaft, so you can fit the same knobs to them all! That Axetec push/push pot has a 24-spline shaft.

Update from the past couple of days...
Headstock taped up and 5 coats of gloss black nitro sprayed. Turned out quite well but have flattened it back and will add a few more coats to try and achieve a piano black head stock. Minor bleeding on 2 edges which was to be expected but I'd planned to add a copper pinstripe around the edge of the head stock so this will cover up the bleed anyway so no issue.

Another couple of layers of copper added to the body, rubbed back lightly with 2000 grit wet/dry and it was looking pretty sweet. 2 hours of scrapped binding later and I've decided that the f hole binding should only be visible inside the f hole and not on the top surface. It is too white when I mocked all components in place so the next couple of layers will cover the f hole binding and wont be scrapped back

Slimline DPDT POT ordered and an update on the tuners & nut from Adam received so now its down to Parcelforce

Almost a shame to age the copper. You could always let time and sweat do that for you!

It's too bright with the new copper look. Definitely being tarnished. Think bad penny and not new penny lol

I don't know, I reckon the new penny is pretty cool. Especially if it were under a few layers of lacquer, but your call. Control knobs look good, where did you source them?

It'll age and tarnish on it's own. I personally would leave it and let it develop naturally. Looks great.

Thanks for he feedback guys. I'm not a new, shiny kinda guy so i'll stick with the tarnish and varnish lol. Promise it will be clear lacquer and not varnish lads. The leaf is super thin so it will start to wear off quickly if not lacquered and left to tarnish naturally also.

The knobs are class. I got them off a guy on ebay. They are speed knobs with a penny, a ring / washers and a Celtic button fixed to them. If you search for celtic speed knobs you will come across their stuff. Has some lovely steampunk stuff and was really easy to deal with. Trying to find something suitable for the headstock motif still but think it will be a silver celtic earing

Got another few coats of black on the headstock last night after flattening it back and i'm really impressed. Can see my big ugly face reflected in it already and still another round of flattening and painting to go.

Yes, impractical to leave it natural. However, it should be possible to fix copper sheeting (as opposed to foil) on the top, add some copper nails and go for a full steampunk look that you could leave bare.

Well that was a fun weekend in the shed... not quite sure what stage I am at anymore with the guitar though.

On the positive side there is an additional coat of Danish oil on the back of the body and the middle of the neck as they were slightly lighter than the rest of the oiled sections. Looking the part now and just need a final coat once the neck and body are glued. Neck pocket should be good now after a light sand. The pictures should show the joint on both sides and the clamp should pull the last 1mm out of the gap. Check done with a straight edge along the frets and the bridge height looks to be suitable for a nice playing action.

Another few coats on the headstock and its come up really well so I added the copper detail round the edge to hind any bleed. Really happy with how this has turned out and just needs a little bit of tarnish added.

Now the body... re-coppered the f holes and much happier without so much white showing. Decided to do a trial run on the tarnishing and that's were the problem started... I really like how it has turned out but there are only 3 layers of copper on so far and the plan was always to add 6 as this would equal about 3 layers of nitro paint. Do I knock it back, add 3 more layers and retarnish before the lacquer or just go for the lacquer now??? Mock fitted all hardware and will let it sit for a day or 2 so I can decide. The copper will all darken slightly when the lacquer is added (well it did on trial runs) but still a great amount of reflective copper visible.

It's your choice. The runs on the copper look a bit too obvious to me, so it it was mine, I'd want to at least try and remove them.

The copper itself isn't that robust, as you've mentioned, so my preference would be to try and get rid of the run patterns (at least the large ones), then put several coats of lacquer over the top, as that's what's going to protect the finish.

Hi Simon. The runs and the small deposits are the bit that I'm most happy about. The wee small bubble / water marks I'm not so happy about but that's what makes life fun. Not everyone's opinion is the same.

Indeed not. I like the bubble/water marks! :D

Whatever you do should be right for you.

I’m really liking what you are doing here, Jbuller7.

Thanks guys.
I'm that random guy that would rather have a spotlessly polished car or a dirty car but not a clean one with water marks. Otherwise known as a royal pain in the a55

A bit ill over the past few days so 2000 wet/dried the copper back and put another 2 layers on. Such a lovely smell and taste of rust when sanding back and smoothed well. Neck glue and tuners arrived too so bit the bullet and glued on the neck. Clamp comes off this morning so fingers crossed all is well...
Light sand on the exposed sections of neck joint and a final coat or 2 of the Danish oil on the way.

But before we start... Frusciante is back with the Chili Peppers!!! Just throwing that out there lol

So where did we leave off... Oh yes the neck had just been glued and it seems to be holding well since the clamp was removed. All copper work completed and the second round of tarnishing finished. Really happy with the results again this time. Less tarnishing on the 'wings' as forearm would keep the upper clean and hands fiddling with control knobs would keep the lower clean. Added a couple of quick coats of clear satin in a cold shed with the aide of a gas heater to heat the surface and a tub of scalding water to heat the aerosol paint and no milky bloom. Lacquer was drying as it was contacting with the surface which is a nice way to get a good finish in less than ideal temperature conditions - snow falling outside. Only did the headstock and copper top of the guitar.Was the only way I could see that I could stop the tarnishing and protect the surfaces while other jobs continued. Will need to get in somewhere warmer to spray up the rest with lacquer once I get off work for the holidays.

Really looking good.

Agree with the forearm keeping the upper bout clean(ish) but strictly speaking, acidic sweat on the fingers would tend to corrode the area around the knobs more than normal. You'd want to have the area that would be under the knobs a lot clearer than the area around them.

But it does look good regardless.

And well done for getting it sprayed in the cold. It's cold here and has been very wet indeed, but no slow, Maybe a touch of sleet on Saturday.

That lightbulb moment when you remember there is a heated spray booth at work... 1 slightly extended lunch break later the guitar has 4 more coats of clear satin lacquer on it, my eyelashes are stuck together and i'll need no hair gel for at least a week. Result.

Now to let it cure for a few weeks so I will have to start work on tidying up the fretboard, levelling and dressing frets, rolling the fretboard edges and wiring the harness.

1 quick question to anyone reading who has built an ES1 already... Is the earth wire needed from bridge post? Fitted the bridge bushes (very nice tight fit) and then realised that I needed and earth wire. There is no hole drilled through from the control cavity, and the screwing in a larger bolt trick just seems to be compressing the soft centre block wood at the bottom of the post hole. Really don't want to screw too hard (lol) and delaminate the centre block from the back of the guitar. p.s. did try removing stoptail bush also but had a similar result. thanks

It's a good idea to have it, especially as you've got that P90 in the neck. Otherwise there's no way you can ground your body when playing. Your body acts a bit like an aerial for EMI and the guitar does pick up more noise if you aren't grounded via the strings. You might get away with it if all humbuckers, but the P90 style is one of the noisiest pickups around. Your version does have some shielding, so will be quieter than standard ones.

This is where a stud puller comes in handy. I've got one of these https://www.gluedtomusic.com/product...8aAlSbEALw_wcB and whilst it could be better designed, it gets the job done and works when the long bolt method doesn't.