Hello all,
I am building a mahogany explorer with my dad. This is our first proper woodworking project and is going to be my guitar as my dad has a Les Paul. hopefully it turns out well. So thanks for all the support we might get from you.
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Hello all,
I am building a mahogany explorer with my dad. This is our first proper woodworking project and is going to be my guitar as my dad has a Les Paul. hopefully it turns out well. So thanks for all the support we might get from you.
Good luck,
Looking forward to following your build and seeing what you and your dad do with this build.
Good to have you on board - feel free to ask any questions - plenty of help here.
Thanks @FCD and @Brendan for the support and welcome. (I'm hobbydobby's old man).
For those interested, we've decided to get ourselves organised with Trello. Rather than a whiteboard or something in the garage, this enables us to link to the Pitbull guitar manual, finishing ideas, things to buy, and the build order. Check it out if interested: https://trello.com/b/KYWmxLHH/explore-it-yourself
Day 1
The package arrived. We checked the contents. Boy made a list of everything and we ticked it off. Everything arrived thanks Adam and co. exactly as promised.
https://i.imgur.com/yxGLEai.jpg
Day 2
One of the major preparation steps was organise the garage! Great excuse. Son and I really motivated to clear the bench and organise the tools.
All ready...
https://i.imgur.com/IZBlHmz.jpg
Day 3
Decided on some Entwistle pickups. So we ordered those.
We've done a full dry fit here.
Everything looking very good.
https://i.imgur.com/vZPNiPK.jpg
The black hardware chosen by Boy will be rather attractive along with the ebony fretboard.
https://i.imgur.com/Fz4xRLr.jpg
Found the same thing as a few other forum users/builders: when the neck is placed ideally (for string length), there is not quite enough room for the pickup ring.
As you can see here, with the neck held in place, the ring is aligned in one direction ok, but if I pushed it over the pickup cavity it would bump into the neck.
It's out by a few mm. If we went ring-less, it would be ok, but thinking about either extending the cavity towards bridge, or filing the fretboard back a few mm.
https://i.imgur.com/BtcejYv.jpg
A Further Note on Scale Length
Having watched the very helpful primer video by the Pitbull guys on scale length and compensation, I wanted to know what the precise lengths of the strings should be based on this 'compensation' principle. I did a little more research and found a compensation calculator on a website here: https://www.liutaiomottola.com/formu...mpensation.htm
Based on a scientific paper on the subject, the programmer of the calculator on the website uses formulae to output an offset from the nominal/theoretical length.
For example, on our particular kit neck - measuring from nut to middle of 12 fret = 312.25mm
So the nominal length from 12th to bridge would be 312.25mm as well. With an overall nominal scale length of 624.5mm
Inputting this value into the calculator, the formula takes into consideration some other variables such as the action height, string type (eg electric, steel core) etc and gives an output per string. This output is the extra length you add to the nominal length, to achieve a length which compensates for pitch sharpening. So, based on a scale length of the output for each string was as follows:
String | Pitch | Offset + Nominal length = Total Compensated length
1 | E | 1.32mm + 312.25 = 313.57
2 | B | 2.47mm + 312.25 = 314.72
3 | G | 4.58mm + 312.25 = 316.83
4 | D | 3.67mm + 312.25 = 315.92
5 | A | 4.58mm + 312.25 = 316.83
6 | E | 7.5mm + 312.25 = 319.75
With the neck fit as far into the pocket as it will go, (held with clamp), when i measured these out on the guitar, I found the bridge in a perfect position. The saddles within the bridge have a range of about 8mm they can move, and with that flexibility, we'll be able to hit all the ideal, compensated target lengths as above!
So a) thanks to Adam and co for building such a precise and refined kit. and b) it means we can glue that neck in the 'default' place (as far in as possible against the end of the pickup cavity) and know we're going to be able to set the intonation of the strings ideally.
After sweating a little over the whole scale length business, I'm now feeling a lot more confident that we'll end up with an accurate instrument, and super impressed at the precision of these kits to be honest.
Frets
The other awesome thing is: after straightening the neck, we checked the fret levels and they appear to need almost no work at this stage. (We'll slightly adjust a couple). So again - hats off to Adam as design/organiser and the guys in the factory.
Neck Straightness
Stringing up the low and high Es, and checking the line all the way down to the saddle - the neck appears to be as straight as necessary and needs no adjustment.
Filing fretboard
With the issue above, we had to make a call on either going ringless, or filing a little of the fretboard to accomodate the rings. Boy decided he preferred the 'ringed look', so we filed a few mil off the fretboard! Yikes! I'll post pics tomorrow to show the outcome.
Plus I'm wondering about a few things, and could do with the collective wisdom-trust's opinion, if you have time?:
Question
Boy is keen on this finish here:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...psff5bswuf.jpg
https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=173147
The builder kindly informed me the colouring is based on a blend of Old Master's stain. But importing this stain is costly. I wonder could anyone recommend a Dingotone which could achieve a similar colour for mahogany?
Nullarbor ochre is the only real brown Dingotone - and that's not a reddish brown - maybe try a Feast Watson Jarrah or Mahogany stain? Just need to be careful with the Feast Watson stuff - smell is pretty toxic and it eats gloves (i.e., goes straight through nitrile gloves). If you're working with the boy - make sure its well ventilated. Not sure what alternatives exist at the moment.
I had to do a similar operation with both my EXA-1 and ESR-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick_aus
I opted to put a saw cut down the end of the neck heel, then use files and sanding blocks to tidy up. Generally less stressful, as if you aren’t confident in the saw cut, you can mount it in a mitre bloc to insure you get it square and perpendicular to the tenon.
I hope yours didn’t cause too many conniptions!
Welcome Hobbydobby & Mav.
@Brendan - thanks for the responses. I'll have a look at that Feast Watson stain.
@Frankenwashie - thanks. Interesting. Good to hear others took a similar approach. No - not too stressful ;) , but both of us were nervous. I'm not 100% sure with the outcome yet, but it's in the ballpark. (more to come soon).
@Fretworn - thanks! Nice to be welcomed to the community :)
Pickups
In choosing pickups I wanted to try something a little different (and interested to see how a lower-cost pickup compares), rather than the same old standards. After discussing back and forth a few times with Simon from Entwistle, we tried to come up something based on my pickups of reference - Seymour Duncan JB & Jazz. I ended up with the Dark Star (ceramic) (bridge) and HV58+ (neck). They've arrived and look good. Some good attention to detail with tinning of the cable ends. It will be interesting to see how they sound.
https://i.imgur.com/DeKKeau.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/2kx5FTB.jpg?1
Room For Pickup Ring Issue
So on to the issue we found. Recap - whilst the neck as cut fits beautifully for the right length, there's not quite enough room for the pickup ring. (Making room results in the bridge being too far away).
We marked off where to file to. After filing for a little while, Hobbydobby came up with the idea of using our very coarse grit paper instead. This worked rather well. We paused to check and voila! just the distance we needed.
https://i.imgur.com/zUvoJ2x.jpg
We test-fitted with the pickups in the rings and it's close but fits.
https://i.imgur.com/b0P0hlE.jpg
Our sanding/filing job was not perfect as you can see, but will be mostly covered by the ring.
How Should We Handle This?
Onto the next thing to solve:
The neck pocket 'edge' arrived with these two minor imperfections. We're thinking about what to do if anything. Any advice would be most appreciated.
1. On this first one, you can see the wood had split off at the very edge on the corner
https://i.imgur.com/eYxczkS.jpg
Based on feedback in the forums about not sanding or modifying the inside of the pocket, I'm not sure about how to level this corner out.
2a. You can see the thin end of the two sides of the pocket walls come to an end at different points. One is thicker and ends with a right angle to the floor of the pocket. The other (closer to the 'lower point' of the explorer shape) is a little thinner and ends a mil or two short.
https://i.imgur.com/wYRwnjX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wFDSa9P.jpg
With the neck in it really isn't noticeable, but I'd like to get it as perfect as possible and be interested in the what others would do.
2b. The other qn here, in the above photo is the you can see on the shorter one, the verticle line is not straight - it's a little jagged looking. Would you try and straighten it with sanding?
Whether and How to Smooth the Neck-Body connection
My son specifically said he doesn't like the big step from the neck up to the body, and he likes the smooth flowing look from neck to body you see on other guitars.. See below
https://i.imgur.com/J0NNz1B.jpg
Could something like this be achieved? Maybe not as scooped but just smoother.
https://images.gibson.com/Files/4494...2812334b9a.jpg
Could we sand down that step to a point where it meets the neck? Or does it need to be thicker for strength?
Also the next spot down: ie the 'D' shaped part on the neck itself, could that be sanded down smooth too?
I have done a smoother transition on the neck heel of mine. I will take some photos of it for you tonight.
Effectively, i added maple to the neck heel and then, once the neck was set, I added a slight angle down from between the horns to the front rounded edge of the neck heel.
(I also did some major reworking of the neck tenon, but lets not go there!)
Thanks FrankenWashie! I look forward to seeing your example
Hi Mav & HD,
This is what I did,https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...dc7f3930be.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4592d9f858.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b31412cecc.jpg
The maple block added to the heel helped keep the bulk of that step in place for joint strength, but allowed me to taper the rear of the body into the heel. The finish on Theo’s one never quite went right so at some point, future me is going to get the irrits with it and sand it back to redo. But that will be the fifth time it’s been sanded back and current me can’t face that at this point!
I did some other weirdness like go EMG and add a battery box as well.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...749772b8d7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...40ba70db43.jpg
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Thanks FrankenWashie,
That's a good approach - you got the shape without compromising the strength. Can I say that finish looks terrific. Love the dark stain with the brown. Kind of relic-ed looking. Also, novel approach to the placement of the battery box.
Thanks mate. The surface finish isn’t what I wanted, it’s quite uneven. But to be fair it was my first kit and I’d been fairly ambitious with the mods and the finish, but that’s part of the fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick_aus
You just need to ask yourselves how you want that joint to look, and how far you are willing to go to make it look like that.
Adding some additional depth to the heel is pretty simple, it’s whether you want to further contour that Heel/body transition that will complicate it.
best of luck with it!
I'm testing out the Feast Watson Japanese Brown stain at the moment on an old non pb kit. I've added the max recommended amount to a lacquer. I reckon it'll go pretty close to the brown you want. Can post pics if you like.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@FrankenWashie - thanks mate. Yeah I definitely want to contour it down. If I tapered it down (without adding the extra piece) do you think it would compromise the strength?
@Griffilo - thanks. I'd be interested to see if you can post some pics. We've now bought Feast Watson Jarrah, but it would be good to see some alternatives.
Body Shaping
Boy has started to shape the body to his taste with an angle on the edge all the way around. He's also taken to the relief sections with great gusto! He's got an artistic eye and knows intuitively what he wants so that's all up to him without my interference.
https://i.imgur.com/lixQ7xn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MHiU4gS.jpg
Neck
Tried to smooth out some blemishes in the fretboard. Have sanded right up to 1200 and then 0000 steel wool. It's quite hard to get an even finish after trying to remove some blemishes (which appear to be deeper than I first thought). Anyway, after a coat of linseed oil, the colour of the ebony is rather lovely and I'm quite pleased.
https://i.imgur.com/CczJeQi.jpg
Nut-end Issue
After scoring along the glue and gently prising, the plastic factory nut came out surprisingly easily. However, it unearthed this...
https://i.imgur.com/RpNCE3r.jpg
1. The thin piece of fretboard which is protruding is thicker on the left side compared to right. I assume this intended, as when the nut is placed on there, the string side of the nut appears level. Is this right?
2. But that missing piece of wood I'm concerned about. I'm not sure whether to just glue the new nut straight on, or try and build up the hole with a bit of black-stained sawdust+glue paste. (I couldn't salvage any useful slivers from the old nut to glue on.)
If anyone has any ideas on these two things, that would be most welcome!
Boy this forum is helpful! Thanks guys. I never would have dived in deep like this with such a big project (being quite impractical in my background), but with your support it makes it doable!
Attachment 31659
This is it, but in reality it is darker and a bit of a more orange brown.
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Thanks Griffilo.
The degree of neck joint strength you will lose will vary minimally subject to what sort angle you elect to go for.
I personally believe there is enough contact area in the pocket for a good bond, unless you are going to really pare away the bulk of the thickness from the back of the neck pocket along its length.
consider the below:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2a842e60cc.jpg
Without adding wood to the neck heel, you could use 1, 2 or 3 to reshape, without greatly affecting the overall integrity of the neck pocket..
I would be concerned if you went with a flatter line from neck shaft through to the rear of body, as this night rely too greatly on the adhesion on the sides of the neck for joint strength. See 4 below:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b20b607ee1.jpg
In this instance, it may evince a more aesthetically pleasing line but it could place the integrity of the neck at risk, as well as weaken the pocket significantly.
Given the work that HD has already done on the body, he may find a happy compromise in between the lines I have drawn or a curve or similar of his own. He seems to have a keen eye for complementary lines already well developed.
I hope this helps and is not too much pontificating.
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No, not pontificating at all. That's very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to sketch that up and explain. Yes it makes sense. I think something along the lines (so to speak) of 1 is what I was thinking, but as you say the end result will depend on what precisely my boy has in mind. (I was thinking curve but a straight line might better fit the angularity of the explorer theme.) But we'll stay away from the likes of 4. Cheers
Yes, very helpful and useful drawings and info FW.
I will definitely be doing something similar on my next set neck build. It's the one area I regret not putting more thought into with my PRS-1TS build. Oh well, there is at least one lesson in each build!
Hi guys,
A quick question on the build.
Looking at the neck I have noticed a slight convex bow. The neck, I assume, should be level such as the black line in the diagram. However ours has the red line. You can see the gap under the ruler on the two images below.
Could I get some expert opinion on this?
Options:
1. level this by sanding
2. shim up the end with a thin slice of wood
3. just glue it in place as is, using two clamps to try and straighten it
https://i.imgur.com/BLFdeV2.png
https://i.imgur.com/hM9uhai.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/avS5uYs.jpg
I have had this issue before on a couple of Pitbull necks an one of my own manufacture.
I would probably use a flat wood block with 40 or 60 grit attached.
FIrst other thing to check is that the whole heel is square at the base and that the fretboard is square to that. Depending on how worn the factory templates are this can sometimes all be out of whack. PBG have worked really hard with their vendors on QC, but occasionally things slip through.
You mark a straight reference line from rear to front of heel on both sides, describing your ideal line. You need to be careful about how much comes off as this will also add to your action height slightly.
You then insure that your reference line measures up the same at front and back on both sides. I tend to measure from fretboard join for this. (If the neck is not totally squared up this is fairly difficult)
Then its a case of REALLY CAREFULLY AND SLOWLY sanding with low grits, checking constantly that you aren’t either making it worse or creating a new luthiers challenge for yourself.
If you want to get fiddly you can set up guide rails level with the reference line, and rest your block on those to keep it all square.
Hope this helps,
FW
Thanks FrankenWashie