Yamaha S-50A I found this at lifeline today

I saw this in the op shop today and while it was a bit overpriced for an old acoustic, I couldn't leave it.

I knew right away it was vintage, so nice for a wall hanging if nothing else. I've done a bit of googling and its pretty interesting.

Steel string folk guitar from 1969-1972. Sort of rare.

Apparent specs

BODY: Katsura-wood- back and sides, Yamaha has used Katsura-woods- in its acoustic and classical guitar designs. The wood gives a beautiful finish to the instrument, and provides a rich tone.
Ivoroid body binding
NECK: Nato wood
Finger-board: Bubinga? with pearl dot inlay? TOP: Solid :?SPRUCE
Frets: Nickel-19 ?Access to 12
Vintage 42 mm bone nut

I'm seeing them from around $250-$600 online which is surprising....then there is this one

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...itar-245127283

Sale Price: $3,650.00 $3,450.00 !!!

That cannot be right.

Anyone familiar with them? Anyone interested in it? I don't have much call for an acoustic so I'm open to moving it on.

Some pics - can post more if people are keen.

https://i.imgur.com/KVNnewA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/LLSY5qc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KG8l4ph.jpg

Wow, what a find. It should sound really sweet with a new set of strings.

Not in the market but reckon anyone would be happy to own it. Similar tuners to a yammy 12 string I owned from around 1979 and are the only negative aspect as they were a bit fiddly for a steel string and looked more at home on a classical.

Very nice. I'd keep it as at some point you'll want one and you'd probably have to pay a lot more for one that sounded as good. It looks like it's got a solid top at least. Can you check that by looking at the soundhole and seeing if the grain runs from front to back?

Does it have a truss rod? It will be under the front of the soundhole if it has one. Have you measured the scale length?

I'd say anything up to AU$600 for a very good condition one. The only one I could find that sold on eBay in the UK went for £57, about AU$100. Others, just called S-50, went for similar amounts, through many had been re-strung with nylon strings.

1967, when the S-50A was introduced, was the year when Yamaha first started making classical guitars, having trained up a team of craftsmen under a Spanish master luthier. These were high-end guitars, all handmade, and were (and still are) correspondingly expensive.

The high price given in that Worthpoint listing appears to refer to a classical guitar with nylon strings, not steel, so probably refers to a Yamaha classical guitar, though if said guitar had a 'laminated spruce top' as stated, it certainly would be a bottom of range guitar and wouldn't be worth much. So I'd ignore it.

I once bought a book on the history of Yamaha guitars, but it was basically just an advert for Yamaha guitars with very little info on the old ones, so I threw it away in annoyance.

Their first steel-string acoustic, the FG-180, came out the year before the S-50A, so acoustic guitars in general were new to Yamaha at the time.

I can find very little info on the S-50A, but it is obviously influenced by classical design in body shape, size and construction. It might be worth putting a phone inside and taking a pic of the bracing pattern used, and see whether that is a classical or acoustic style. There are obvious steel-string modifications, like the steel string posts and a slightly narrower neck. The bridge obviously has a screw or bolt through it to help keep it attached. But otherwise it's certainly a classical bridge, with a straight saddle, so it won't intonate very well. The bridge doesn't have the inlay around the tie-over part that their classical guitars had, so again looks to be more suited to ball ends than classical strings, where lack of binding can cause the strings to wear notches in the bridge.

If you were a lot more local, I'd take it off your hands, but distance and CITES really prohibits it.

Hey Thanks Simon, I figured you’d be the one with any extra info. I’ll grab some more pics when I head out to the shed and see if I can answer some of your questions.

Nice nab, looking at the nut the size of the E1 & B slots suggests that it may have been a nylon string guitar.

It was strung with ancient steels and the 'S' denotes that is was a steel string. The nylon version is the G-50A and they are a lot more common. These were only made for a couple of years from what I can gather. I'd say Simon's assessment is correct there.

On to Simons Q's.

No truss rod, or at least no way to adjust it. Neck is pretty straight, but it does have that normal steel string bulge happening around the bridge. The bridge isn't lifting and it's not the worst I've ever seen/played. I've taken the strings off it for now. Is there any way to improve that without dismantling the guitar? I guess it was a pretty playable action,but could be better.

Scale length is 645mm to the high e saddle, so ~ 25.5"

Top appears to be solid, the same grain is visible underneath. Some pics at the end of this post showing the general condition. I haven't done any cleaning apart from wiping some dust off it, but overall the varnish is in good nick, a few bumps and scratches, but they are all quite light. You can see pick wear on the front of the guitar which is the worst damage, but totally in keeping with a vintage instrument.

Grain under the top

https://i.imgur.com/9JPc8Qt.jpg

Interior looking at the top

https://i.imgur.com/zWU4o3C.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/V6fR6x3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VMtFuAI.jpg

Interior back

https://i.imgur.com/q8gWoHR.jpg

Fret board

https://i.imgur.com/QBHW8Qs.jpg

Nut - the steel strings on it were very heavy at least 11's I reckon

https://i.imgur.com/DDYRpY7.jpg

back of the guitar - trying to sow the grain hidden under the marks and grime.

https://i.imgur.com/nCnpXRx.jpg

Front

https://i.imgur.com/M0PRbXP.jpg

Pick wear and the worst scratch

https://i.imgur.com/kATbS3q.jpg

Bad photo of the sound hole label

https://i.imgur.com/fJwh4Cu.jpg?1

I’d be tempted to clean it all up and Pop a set of nylon strings on it and see how it goes.

If you do, I'd suggest D'Addario folk nylon strings as they have ball ends. Otherwise if you try steel strings, I wouldn't go higher than .010"s at first and see how it behaves. The bracing for the top looks very minimal to me, neither classical nor steel acoustic style, so I wouldn't stress it too much.

The fretboard could certainly benefit from some lemon oil and the frets definitely need some cleaning and polishing!

The saddle is probably a replacement, as the original would have run the full length of the saddle slot. It looks like there's enough height in the saddle to shave some of the wood down in the slot area, so that you can then sand the saddle down a bit as well to lower the string height. The nut slots could probably be lowered a bit as well. If it were mine, I'd replace the saddle and nut with bone replacements as the saddle is notched and the nut slots are rather wide on the top strings.

The top does look solid to me, though the back (and so almost certainly the sides) looks like a laminate - which is fine.

A run over with some Meguiars should get the dirt off and maybe some of the surface scratches.

I'd unscrew the tuners in order to clean them up better.

It could be a very nice sounding guitar!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave.king1

Nice nab, looking at the nut the size of the E1 & B slots suggests that it may have been a nylon string guitar.

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I’d have to agree. Or someone converted it to a nylon string at some stage. Is the fretboard flat, or radiused?

Looks very flat to me from the pics, otherwise a very large radius indeed. A very classical trait. The board running right up to the soundhole is also typically classical.

Yes the fret board is very flat and to look at you would definitely assume its a nylon string classical guitar. Actually in my research I've found a couple of different forum discussions regarding this. As Simon mentioned above they only started making steel string instruments the year before this model came out, so perhaps they were still finding their way.This model was also very short lived and obviously the FG's are much more in line with what you would expect from a steel string acoustic.

I think they looked at their classical acoustic and said, "wonder if that would work as a steel string with some minor mods?" The G-50A is the nylon equivalent.

It is a difficult guitar to properly research as there isn't a lot of definitive information, so a lot of the info is second hand.

This guy seemed to know his Yamahas on one of the forums I read through:

"The Yamaha S50A is a Steel string folk guitar which is often mistaken for a classical guitar, putting nylon strings on it is a big mistake, it was not made in 1961 as someone on here claimed by it's serial number, it was infact made between 1969 and 1972 as Yamaha didn't start making guitars with the tuning fork logo on the head stock until mid '69. This model is quite rare, I have one here and the sound.."magic" For a mint condition one you shouldn't accept less than $600 US, for a rough one you should still be asking atleast 250 bucks as age only makes these guitars sound better no matter how rough they might look. I also agree with someone else's comment on here that Yamaha do need to get off thier asses and make us a list as everything currently available is useless. Hope this was of some help, thanks- Wade"

I've given this one a light clean and put a low 'e' string on it. The action is pretty high for my tastes, but it does play clearly and ring out nicely. I'll get a full set of nylons and see how that goes, I'm wary of the amount strain steels would put on it. Shame there isn't an easy way to adjust the string height- I don't really want to pull it apart too much. I'll post some more pics later on of where its at.

Oh interestingly the saddle is actually round! While it is a bit short in the bridge, it does look like that's what the bridge is set up to accept. Again, I'll post some more pics later after I've done all my saturday morning jobs.

Neck

https://i.imgur.com/hhHWQ0l.jpg


Tuners lightly cleaned up

https://i.imgur.com/FepM4hx.jpg

Action you could fly a plane under

https://i.imgur.com/EruqMlO.jpg

The bridge/belly bulge is not what I would call significant. Perhaps I should lower the saddle slot a bit?

https://i.imgur.com/bCeNqm5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XwMI03E.jpg

Maybe you already mentioned this, but is the neck straight? That photo makes it look like it twists towards the treble side a bit.

Hi Friends :)
Nice to see other S-50A owners discuss this nice guitar.

I also own this model. Bought it in Italy in 2004 in very good condition, and it was sitting quietly in storage till corona came and motivated me to start learning guitar.
Based on the photos you posted, my guitar looks identical, so it was interesting to learn new information about it.

Since I’m new to guitars and music playing, I wanted to know if you found this guitar to be laminate or solid?
I tried to follow YouTube instructions on how to distinguish between the two build types, but I’m still not sure if my observation is correct.
Hope someone can clear the fog :)

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Some more photos

Attachment 39389

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Attachment 39391

I found this thread while searching for some info on my Yamaha S-50A, which I bought 2nd hand in the late 1970s.

Even though the thread a little old, I thought it be best to clarify the top - it's a laminate - not a solid top. The grain is interrupted around the sound-hole where the laminates meet. There is no truss rod.

That said it holds tune well and plays well. Being a ply top the sound is OK but not "beautiful".

The content of the thread confirms what I was led to believe about it way back when - basically a nylon classical guitar design, though with a narrower neck, supplied with steel strings and a different model number. Maybe the bracing is different - I wouldn't know. - My guitar has a few wear and tear marks - and the first and second frets show indentation wear on the 2nd and 3rd strings.

I looked it up as I was thinking of letting it go - just bought another (guitar) and the rule is - one in, one out.

If you've got an inspection mirror you should be able to put it inside and see what the bracing pattern is like. Classical guitars tend to have bracing running across the guitar either side of the soundhole, and then more bracing in a fan pattern spreading out from the soundhole on the rear of the top, roughly with the centreline of the guitar, something like this:

Attachment 43212

Steel string acoustic guitars generally follow an X-bracing system, which provide more structural support for the top.

Attachment 43213