Telecaster replacement pickup wiring question

Good morning all! It's been a while since I've been here. Fatherhood, work and lack of pocket money have all been contributing factors ;)

I've recently decided and committed to modding my '83 MIJ Telecaster, and committed to buying (awaiting delivery) of a handmade "Martin A Smith" wide range humbucker (https://www.martinasmith.com.au/coll...mbucker-single) from downtown Perth, WA for the neck.

After I pulled the trigger and paid for it, I had an afterthought about the wiring and pots...

Martin will supply me with a 1meg pot to compliment the new pickup, but then I thought about the stock bridge PUP? I assume the pots in the Tele are 250k, and from what I've read the bridge is going to be UNBELIEVABLY bright if going though a 1meg pot.

Now I am the first to admit I know next to zero about electronics. Can someone offer me any advice? The only possible solution I came up with was buying a control panel with three knobs, and hopefully find a wiring diagram online, but so far I've come up with nothing.

Just to complicate things a little more, I want to be able to split the new WRHB too. I have the original control plate for the tele which has a switch on it (was for phasing before I disconnected it), which I thought I could utilise.

You have some options:

You can alter how the pickups are connected to the switch so that a resistor is linked in for the bridge only pup position to reduce the effective value of the 1M volume pot (albeit with some side effects).

Or, instead of just the resistor, add a cap/resistor filter combo to drop off some of the highs to warm it up a bit to compensate for the 1M pot.

Or, compromise for both pups and see how a 500K pot sounds.

Or, I guess you could even try using a dual 250K/500K pot and set it up so the bridge get the 250K wafer and the neck adds in the 500K wafer giving effectively 750K. Just throwing out some quick ideas.

Thanks mate! It might take a while to digest this and wrap my head around it, but I will certainly look into your suggestions!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeirdBits

You have some options:

You can alter how the pickups are connected to the switch so that a resistor is linked in for the bridge only pup position to reduce the effective value of the 1M volume pot (albeit with some side effects).

Or, instead of just the resistor, add a cap/resistor filter combo to drop off some of the highs to warm it up a bit to compensate for the 1M pot.

Or, compromise for both pups and see how a 500K pot sounds.

Or, I guess you could even try using a dual 250K/500K pot and set it up so the bridge get the 250K wafer and the neck adds in the 500K wafer giving effectively 750K. Just throwing out some quick ideas.

---

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I was thinking, and I don't know if this is possible, could I have two different volume pots and sacrifice the tone which I never use?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Yep, you certainly could.

Noob question...
If you have no tone pot, what tone would you expect? Treble or bass sounding? I assume volume pot resistance comes heavily into play as the only variable.

It's going to be a brighter sound. That's why they make 'no load' tone pots where the pot (and therefore the capacitor) are taken out of circuit when turned up to 10, and the pot is only brought into play when the pot is turned down to 9 or less.

If the sound is too bright without the pot, you can always wire a 240k or 270k resistor and a 0.047uF cap in series between the output and ground to simulate the effect of a tone pot set to 10.

Million dollar question: is anyone able to make a wiring diagram for me? Happy to wire some PayPal bucks for somebody's time.

I've ordered the following for the LRHB in order to split;
https://www.evatco.com.au/cts-1-meg-...sh-pull-single

I'm going to re-use one of the existing 250k pots and the 3-way selector.



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Have you asked Martin Smith what the sound of the split humbucker is like? I was just wondering, as the pickup has three exposed and presumably three hidden poles, with the hidden ones further away from the strings because of the cover, so there might be quite an imbalance in output between the top 3 and bottom 3 strings in split mode. In humbucker mode this is balanced by the other coil being the reverse orientation, so all strings have one loud and one quieter coil/pole-piece combination.

You may find that the split coil option isn't that great as a result. Or it might sound good. But you might want to ask before bothering with it. At least you'd know what to expect without then worrying about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Simon Barden

It's going to be a brighter sound. That's why they make 'no load' tone pots where the pot (and therefore the capacitor) are taken out of circuit when turned up to 10, and the pot is only brought into play when the pot is turned down to 9 or less.

If the sound is too bright without the pot, you can always wire a 240k or 270k resistor and a 0.047uF cap in series between the output and ground to simulate the effect of a tone pot set to 10.

---

Simon (or "Swami Simon, the Patron Saint of Luthiers" as I shall hence forth know you), would you suggest a cap and resister per pick-up?

Also, what are the pros and cons of 240k v 270k?

Not really. If you had a single volume control, you'd only have one tone control on the common output from the selector switch. So no real reason to have more than one, But you could have one per pickup if you wanted to sculpt the tone of each pickup differently.

It's easy to add a cap+resistor in series afterwards, so you could start without and see where you are before you decide whether one or both pickups need some taming.

Standard resistor values don't include 250k, so you have a choice of 240k or 270k on either side. 240k will be slightly darker than 270k. You can of course use any value resistor you want, with higher values meaning a bit brighter and lower values a bit duller. You could go up to 2 meg to get a very small amount of treble loss.

Too much below 240k and the cap value also makes itself more obvious. with higher values than 0.047uF giving a darker tone with a lower treble roll-off point and smaller values (such as 0.022uF typically found on humbuckers) giving a brighter tone with a higher treble roll-off point.

There is no right or wrong here, just personal taste and general values between which most people agree sound OK. Resistors and caps are cheap (especially when bought in bulk mixed bags) and some crocodile clips to hold things together lets you test things out before getting the soldering iron out.

I agree with Simon, set it up first and then decide if you need any tone/brightness tweaks.

I can sort out a wiring diagram for you, that’s no hassle. Did you select the ‘4 conductor’ wire option when you ordered the pickup?

Yeah I did, and bought a push/pull 1 Meg for the WRHB volume. Sure I can't flick some cash or a 6 pack?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeirdBits

I agree with Simon, set it up first and then decide if you need any tone/brightness tweaks.

I can sort out a wiring diagram for you, that’s no hassle. Did you select the ‘4 conductor’ wire option when you ordered the pickup?

---

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Bit of a side question on this, if you had a 4 wire hunbucker and used a on off on switch. Which would have one on as humbucker and the other as coil split with the off as a kill switch and have no vol or tone pots just go straight to the jack plug. What would happen. Me being not a great musician ive only ever had everything wound up on 10. If you want to hide bad playing turn it up louder 😂

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Barnes

Bit of a side question on this, if you had a 4 wire hunbucker and used a on off on switch. Which would have one on as humbucker and the other as coil split with the off as a kill switch and have no vol or tone pots just go straight to the jack plug. What would happen. Me being not a great musician ive only ever had everything wound up on 10. If you want to hide bad playing turn it up louder 

---

In practical terms, pots ‘bleed’ some brightness/highs away from your signal. The larger the value pot, and the fewer pots in the circuit, the less ‘brightness’ is lost.

250K pots are used for single coils as you want to lose some highs and warm the signal up. 500K pots help to retain some brightness for the warmer sound of humbuckers, and 1M pots are used to keep all the ‘highs’ you can. If you continue on with the ‘larger value is brighter’ idea then an infinite value pot (infinite resistance) would have maximum brightness... and inifinite resistance is the same as having no connection at all, or taking the pot out of the circuit. ‘No Load’ tone pots and ‘Jackhammer’ style volume pots do just this at ‘10’ by disconnecting the pot from the circuit to give you max signal.

So, just having the pickup and a switch would give you maximum volume and brightness... and minimum subtlety. That doesn’t necessarily mean it will sound good though, as the combination of pickups and pots and caps all contribute to the overall sound of the circuit and guitar. The only way to know is to try it and let your ears/neighbours tell you.

Checking specs for the diagram:

PBG stock 3-way lever switch
1M CTS single pole push/pull neck volume pot (coil split neck humbucker)
PBG stock 250K bridge volume pot

Correct?

Kind of:

It's a Fender (early 80's Japan) 3-way switch
1M CTS single pole push/pull neck volume pot (coil split neck humbucker)
250k CTS bridge volume pot (new so it will match the USA sized shaft of the 1M P/P and new knobs)
Taihan Black Bee Paper In Oil Capacitor • .047 uF (following Simon's recommendation)
Will pick up a resistor at the local Jaycar when and if I ever get out of work on time

Gotcha, will draw it up when I get some time.

Scott.... you're a bloody legend! My next dog will be named in your honour

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeirdBits

In practical terms, pots ‘bleed’ some brightness/highs away from your signal. The larger the value pot, and the fewer pots in the circuit, the less ‘brightness’ is lost.

250K pots are used for single coils as you want to lose some highs and warm the signal up. 500K pots help to retain some brightness for the warmer sound of humbuckers, and 1M pots are used to keep all the ‘highs’ you can. If you continue on with the ‘larger value is brighter’ idea then an infinite value pot (infinite resistance) would have maximum brightness... and inifinite resistance is the same as having no connection at all, or taking the pot out of the circuit. ‘No Load’ tone pots and ‘Jackhammer’ style volume pots do just this at ‘10’ by disconnecting the pot from the circuit to give you max signal.

So, just having the pickup and a switch would give you maximum volume and brightness... and minimum subtlety. That doesn’t necessarily mean it will sound good though, as the combination of pickups and pots and caps all contribute to the overall sound of the circuit and guitar. The only way to know is to try it and let your ears/neighbours tell you.

---

Thanks scott great info

Volume/Volume diagram with CTS single pole push/pull splitting the wide range humbucker when 'up'. The volumes are linked like an LP, so in the middle position zeroing either pickup's volume will mute all sound. The wire colours should be correct for your pickups.

Attachment 29042

If you decide you need the cap + resistor combo to cut back some brightness/icepicky-ness, it just needs to be connected between the out from the switch and ground (and insulated so it can't short with anything). Something like this:

Attachment 29043

Note: If your CTS push/pull has a plastic back like above then you need to make sure the metal body is grounded either via the control plate or with a solder link on the side like I've drawn it.

Let me know if you need anything else.

To have the two volumes nearer to hand, you may find it pays to reverse the control plate before fitting and wiring the pots and 3-way switch, so that the selector switch is now towards the rear. It's a common mod done by Telecaster players on standard Teles, just to get the volume and tone controls closer to the picking hand.

Holy crap Scott! That's awesome! Thanks, I was expecting (and would have been completely happy with) a hand drawn sketch on the back of a napkin! This is absolutely amazing and I am very thankful.

Honestly blown away by your generosity and kindness. I wish there was a way I could pay you back :)

Good call Simon, I was contemplating this a while back. Before I wire anything u, I'll have a play around with it and see what feels most comfy.

All done! Thanks for the help fellas.

Found out along the way my neck is a 1973 US too!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4548307e52.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4117c61cd4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e50ecadda8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...33d7cff4d2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7d035db2ad.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2248a8ba22.jpg

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

I got one word for the neck pup.....Bawlllzzzzz!:cool:

It's certainly going to be louder than his stock neck pickup. from the website description:

"The neck pickup is slightly underwound to provide a better balance when switching between positions, and add a bit of sparkle back to the naturally darker neck position: 11.2k bridge, 10.5k neck."

So it's got 1k's worth of more windings than the normal Martin Smith neck pup. Is this something you discussed with him or did it just come like that? I'm just wondering if he adds more windings to the working single coil on his tapped pickups for a bit more balance between tapped and untapped levels? Something that several pickup makers are now doing, I believe.