RCM-12 The Dirty Dozen

Pit Bull build number two for me.
One of the great things about the kits available is it gives the opportunity to have something far more quirky than I could justify if buying ready built.
Ticks a couple of boxes that are currently missing from my guitar collection being semi hollow-bodies (although that doesn't mean there wont be a 335 at some point) and 12 string.
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I have bought some toaster style pickups to replace the kit humbuckers. These weren't expensive so I'm not expecting much more from them other than to look the part but we'll see. I have a more upmarket pickup upgrade in mind but want to get the guitar built and playing first to see if it warrants it.
The visible part of the pups are the same size as those supplied but they have a bigger base so first job is to enlarge the routes to suit.
Progress will be slow at first as I have a few DIY jobs on and then a weeks holiday coming up but I'll be doing a bit whenever I can.

ETA the neck is a bit loose in the pocket but I'll let things settle down a bit before I work too much about that.
Better pics to come when I do the mock build.

I'll be watching with interest, this one is on my hit list

Managed to do a bit amongst other jobs :)
Headstock shaped

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And one pup route done. I'll be making new surrounds that fit better later on.

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Evening all.
I'm looking for a bit of advice from the PBG massive.
I have put the bridge and saddle and a couple of tuners in place temporarily to check alignment

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As mentioned above, the fit of the neck into the pocket is very slightly loose but its enough to let the neck go from this

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to this

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With everything set where it looks best it appears there is a gap on the bass side of the pocket. I can just get my steel rule into this and that is just under 0.5mm thick.

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If I project the centre line I marked out to the neck pocket and measure to the sides this seems to confirm 0.5mm wider on the bass side.

The question is whether this is worth worrying about - do I need to shim the pocket or just make sure I align everything right when it comes to gluing the neck?

As with my bass there is a wedge shaped gap between the end of the neck and the pocket. I do intend to shim this just for a bit more positive neck / body contact.

BTW the pickup routes are a WIP by me enlarging with an Aldi 'Dremel' - they weren't that rough when the kit was delivered :)

If it were me I'd be seriously looking at shimming. Not necessarily filling the entire gap with a shim but at least a substantial portion of any gap.

You could get away without shimming however most glues will shrink slightly over time leaving the joint weaker than desired, so filling most of the gap with wood to a firm fit is preferential.

Thanks Marcel.
I've been thinking about it today and had come to the conclusion that I should shim it.
Its not a huge amount of work at this stage.
I have some adhesive backed shims intended for a neck so I think I will remove the backing and glue a couple of them in the neck pocket then sand down until I get a good fit

Ok, I have shimmed the neck pocket.
it felt like I sanded the shim down to almost nothing but it has done the job and I'm a lot happier with the fit now.

Test build

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Lots of tuners!

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And a few bitsAttachment 27987

Next job is to level and dress the frets then start sanding :cool:

On the basis that we don't have problems on here, just opportunities to exercise our skill and ingenuity, I have given myself quite an opportunity...

I decided to stain the top black then sand it back to pick out the grain.
This wasn't very successful as there rally wasn't a lot of grain at all and a fair bit of sanding has been needed to get rid of the last patches of black.
Now I've read many times on here how careful you need to be when sanding a veneered top.
In my defence, I didn't realise this was veneered until -

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Insert swear words of your choice - I used them all.

So, having given it some thought, it shouldn't be too difficult to re-veneer the top.
Would I need to completely remove the existing or just go over the top of it?
More of a challenge would be the binding - I guess I would need to redo it to make a proper job of it. Any suggestions how to go about removing the existing? I remember someone doing a replacement binding recently so would be grateful if anyone could link to that thread.

Any thoughts, suggestions or shoulders to cry on would be gratefully accepted!

This article is worth reading as they veneer over the existing top of a LP copy to cover up various re-filled holes etc. and re-do the binding. It's easier veneering over a flat top than a curved one.

https://www.theguitarmagazine.com/wo...ersion-part-3/

Thanks for the quick reply Simon.
That article looks really helpful.

Sometimes the timber underneath thin layer of veneer doesn't look too bad. If mine, I would be tempted to sand the lot off and then decide whether to do a fresh veneer.

That is a good call thank you waz :-)
I've nothing to lose by giving that a go.

As suggested by wazkelly I have sanded off the rest of the veneer.
Funny how you can sand through it so easily then it takes ages to get the rest of it off :-)

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So it is very, very plain which would be great for a solid finish.
But I had my mind set on a stain so decided I am up for the challenge to do a new veneer so the binding has been removed.
There's quite a bit of stubborn glue left to deal with but we're getting there.

Not much grain definition but looks like it would take a stain colour really well. Suppose the veneer may add some grain pattern but otherwise what you have there doesn't look too bad.
Agree that it takes quite a lot of sanding to remove original veneer. In fact, I reckon the layer of glue is almost thicker than the veneer.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Gary, you've taken the veneer off, but it's still got a maple cap? Just a plain one, rather than something with grain? How thick is the cap?

Hi Tadhg, I sanded a flame maple cap off an ES1 a few months ago and what is now showing is the base plywood used underneath. On mine it had some grain definition but from that shot this one doesn't seem to have much at all. Almost makes you wonder how much more to take it all the way back to only Mahogany?

Just a word of warning, where set neck joins the body you may end up with a slight gap between guitar top and bottom of neck underneath fret board overhang which can be easily filled with natural timber mate and then stained to match that part of the build.

Tadhg, its about a 2mm thick ply cap over the mahogany body.
Waz, I couldn't take it back to the mahogany as there is a cavity under the (not very) F (shaped) hole which the top covers.
You've got me thinking about staining as it is though.
By the time the control cavity cover, pup rings and bridge are fitted there isn't that much of the top on display anyway :-)
I will ponder on that before doing anything else.

Well, this didn't turn out to be a very good build diary!
I have been working away from home so time at weekends has been in short supply so work on the guitar progressed in fits and starts and I had little time to document it on here. So to bring things up to date....
I followed wazkellys advise (thanks man) and stained the top after I had sanded off the veneer and it really did bring out some grain in quite a strange way but I do like it. For a while I wasn't convinced that the green stain on the mahogany was a good idea but I am pleased with how it turned out.
I had already removed the edge binding in anticipation of redoing the veneer but that gave me the opportunity to do a pearloid binding to match the rest of the plastic parts that I made.
I fitted the binding after staining which was a mistake as it was very problematic trimming and sanding it to size without damaging the finish (d'oh!). Hence the finish doesn't stand up too well to close scrutiny and the fitting of the binding is a bit untidy in places. I can live with all this as I think the vibe of the finished guitar is great and just what I was hoping for.
I had shimmed the neck pocket to stop a bit of side to side movement and when I test fitted everything the break angle looked good so I went ahead and glued the neck in.
What I didn't account for (and not sure how you could) was the tension from 12 strings putting a good bow on the neck and even with some tweaking of the truss rod leaving the action too high.
So I have countersunk the holes for the bridge posts so the knurled flange that usually sits on top of the body is now recessed in. Also have the guitar tuned down a tone at the moment and have a lovely buzz free action. I need to get a decent capo so I can play in standard tuning when I want to.
Speaking of tuning, took a very long time to settle down but stays in tune well now.
And that's it - been together for a couple of weeks now and I absolutely love it. Even played acoustically it has 'the' sound and Im working on my repertoire of Byrds riffs.

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Looks great!

Ya done good!
I like it a lot :-)

That's a fantastic blend of colours - the green and the white pearloid go together really well, and the accents of black, chrome and rosewood are a really nice contrast. Great work - even if you have some minor issues with the binding and the finish, you can't see it from stage to crowd distance.

Thanks for the kind comments guys, it means a lot to me :-)