Building an ES-5V

Just eagerly awaiting my ES-5V kit. It was despatched at high speed by PBGs and reached England in record time, but has spent the best part of a week in UK customs; I'm sure it will be all the better for waiting. This is my second build, the first being a cheap resonator kit that went together surprisingly well and gave me the bug.

Attachment 27545

I've learned a great deal from that, and probably more by following DougR's posts and his excellent YouTube video. I asked a few questions and he was kind enough to reply. Still not sure of the finish; it will probably be oil on stain but can't decide between a vintage "butterscotch", perhaps with a mild sunburst, and an all out dark brown to red - will make my mind up when the beast arrives.

I’ll be watching with interest.

Kit has now arrived and, despite the UK's rather punitive VAT, import duty and clearance fees, I'm pretty pleased with it and still think it represents good value (although you guys in Aus. are certainly getting them cheap!). No major flaws and the beast should make up nicely. I was particularly impressed with the neck and fretting, from reading other posts I had expected thin fretwire but, although this is not as fat as some later Gibsons, is of a nice wide profile and only requires minimal work to the sides. The neck is also straight, even with the truss rod relaxed and is a good tight fit into the socket. Slight misalignment of machinehead holes in the headstock and it is something I could correct but probably won't as it hardly distracts from the instrument (and frankly the early Gibsons I have seen have not all been paragons of workmanship). Which reminds me of a quick story, a friend and full time luthier / repairer was once working on a modern high-end American made acoustic guitar (probably best not to give the make). He had the lid off and noticed bolts securing the bridge to the front, on closer examination he realised the bridge itself was plastic...

First job was a quick mock build which seemed to go okay; the neck socket has a deal of excess material on the body section that receives the heel, with that gone I should be able to check the neck angle although it seems okay, and there is so much “meat” on the socket sides that, even if it wrong – which I doubt – it should be readily fixable.

Still not totally decided on the finish; the coward inside me leans towards natural, or slightly stained, but then a good old vintage sunburst would also be so in keeping. It will be hand rubbed whatever and, if I do go for the sunburst, may use small “tester” bottles of water stain, which should give a decent range of colours without too much expense or wastage.

Not going to rush this one, and fully intend to log my progress with pictures once there is something worth showing. Would welcome advice or comments from all.

Es-5's are nice, they sound surprisingly good unplugged as well. Enjoy!

Just finished mine, there's a few hints and tips on the last page of my build diary (link in sig).
Have fun. :)

Thanks, Blinddrew, that is really helpful. I see you had the same problem re. machine head holes, and yes, you are quite right, it is the headstock itself that is out. Still not sure if to address, I'll see if I keep noticing it!

If you're anything like me, once you've seen something you'll only see it more and more...

Okay, on closer examination I can't get away with a slice off the headstock:

Attachment 27585Attachment 27586

the holes are simply erratic. I suppose it would be possible to bush with maple plugs and re-drill (adding a veneer to the headstock if the inserts appear beyond the machinehead washers) but I think I'll leave it be. It does give a "handmade" look to the instrument (and I'd probably only mess up the fresh holes!). Incidentally, there are a number of knots on the neck, something that never bothers me unless they are really unslightly and an actual weakness. I once held a Strad' - it was made during his "golden period" and was a true work of art, yet strangely the timber chosen was not the finest tonewoods and there were several small, and unattractive, knots on the back. The sound was superb, though.
The socket is cleaning up nicely:
Attachment 27587
and the neck sits well:
Attachment 27588

Previous post shows the top nut. My next job is to remove this and cut a decent base for the bone piece that will replace it after finishing. I think finsihing will take longer than usual - I'l be trying to put off the time when I have to fit the electrics - something I have never done before...

Electrics is actually pretty straightforward using cotton, you can feed them in through the pickup hole and drag them through fairly easily.
You'll need to work out your earth wire strategy in advance though...

Okay, this is my aim for the finish.
Attachment 27603
I'm going for a water based stain finished with oil, which worked well for the resonator (see first post), and I do have some red Liberon concentrate left over from that and it gave a nice "shaded" effect with a little work. Right now I'm intending to start with a wash of basic golden pine wood stain, probably Morrells, which I will increase in density until I get the right colour, then add other layers using some of the red then black Liberon in increasing measures with each application, as other have done before. Would have liked to have gone the Dingotone route, but understand that cannot be shipped to the UK and my budget has already taken quite a hit with the UK's custom charges, so can't afford Colortone or the like. Doubt that there was much choice in the 'States back in the early 'forties so think this might give a realistic finish, but would welcome other opinions.

I could use some advice here. On rubbing down the body with fine grade wet and dry I have one specific area on the back where it appears it has already been rubbed, and quite deeply. A nice burnished shine is appearing elsewhere, but this area it stays rough to the touch and the grain is taking in some of the abrasive. I would rub down a little harder with a coarser grit but am aware that the final laminate will be thin, and don't want to cut through it. Seems too shallow for filler, anyone any ideas? (Quite hard to show in photos I'm afraid.)Attachment 27640Attachment 27642

Just finished an ES-1 recently and the bare timber on the back looked just like that on yours.

Weird timber grain pattern and structure. Supposed to be Basswood but looks more like a ply of some sort. I ended up using natural Timber Mate as a grain filler applied quite stiff and using an old credit card as a scraper to squeege into all the cracks.

If using water based stain be wary as this timber's grain structure swelled and opened up once wet in some places on mine and was a right proper #$%@!! to get sorted.

Cheers, Waz

That's really helpful, Waz, thanks.

I am intending to use a water base, although the area where the fault occurs will be under the dark area of stain, so I should get away with it.

Thanks again.

Natural Timber Mate does a good job of soaking up a darker stain.
Try not being too wet or damp when applying water based stain as that may cause swelling.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

I'm now about halfway through the finish using Crimson Guitars' finishing oil over a water-based wood dye, rather than stain.

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Several more coats to add, and a lot more rubbing down, but am pleased with the results (and love the smell).

Shaping up very nicely!

Wow! You did a great job keeping the purfling edge clean.

Cheated a bit, all were masked up well - at least I thought so - but there were runs... I scraped these off and rubbed down the binding with 800 wet and dry, then stained them honey pine, to give that nicotine look. Additional layers of oil have helped.

This is the scaper I used. I cut a 5mm section out of an old paint scraper - the result allows any stain to be easily removed from the plastic binding without touching the finish to the wood.

Attachment 27802

Well, it might not seem I have progressed very far, although I've been working on the box as much as I can. The electrics are done and ready to be fitted but the main problem has been the Crimson Guitar finishing oil, a tung oil based produuct used on my last build and one that proved very satisfactoury then. The first couple of coats went on this one but subsequent layers, bought fresh, have taken ages to cure. They go tacky within half an hour and the excess can be removed, but remain tender for days afterwards. I've had to refinish the neck twice because, after more than a week, the finish could not take a mild rubbing with 1200 wet and dry without crumbling into a grey, sticky mess. Contacted Crimson Guitars but they say the product is fine, and is of the same batch as my last bottle. Anyone else had problems with this?

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Subsequent to this, for the last week the body has been a sticky mess with no sign of the finish curing. The last coat was ultra thin and applied to what had taken almost as long to dry - maybe I should have waited even longer? So now do I just hang on in the hope the stuff will go off? I'd rather avoid stripping the thing down as that would inevitable mean disturbing the finish (a water based stain), and doubt that adding anything over the top will improve matters. Advice welcomed!

I'd wait. Have a fan blowing across the body, this really helps any solvents evaporate.

Patience, young Obi-Wan. I'd be leaving it for two to three weeks before doing anything else. Drying times are always dependent on ambient temperature, humidity, air flow, etc,etc,etc. The newer bottle will probably have more solvent in it than the old bottle too, possibly adding more drying time. Also, the U.K. is not known to be the warmest place on the earth. Unlike here, where it dries before it leaves the bottle.

I've use tung oil and Tru Oil before, and even after it has dried, I have left it alone for another couple of weeks to make sure it has totally cured. The great thing with these oils is that you can add later coats at anytime. It's a beautiful finish on there. Just wait for a while and see what happens.

The joy of making a guitar is...making a guitar, the frustration of making a guitar is waiting to make a guitar. What do you guys say over there? "Keep calm and turn your amp up to 11"

Really grateful for this advice, guys.

Well the beast is finally together. In the end I copped out on the finish - the Crimson Guitar Finishing Oil was just never going to cure (left it five weeks and no change). Eventually used a minimal amount of white spirit and very cautiously gave a light rub, the finish dried instantly and buffed up well. Continued with several coast of Tru Oil that cured within an hour (although I waited a day each time to recoat just to be sure). Electics went in fine and work well although there is quite a gap between the strings and the pick up - I get a reasonable responce but wonder if it is worth raising the unit slightly. Action is good; I found the right height using the adjustable bridge supplied then switched it for a micro adjustable to set the intonation. This is mounted on a solid base from another, higher, unit which I trimmed down so it needed no adjustment screws. Feel the lack of these, and the fact that the bridge is now set firm against the front can only help in getting the best possible sound.
And on that front the instrument has exceeded all my expectations. Started with a set of standard Martin lights but quickly changed to mediums (13-56) The extra weight brings out the bass and a richer treble while not making much of a difference to the playing (I might even be able to lower the action a bit though it is already pretty slick). Photos will follow when i get the chance but am really very pleased with the outcome and have been using this as my guitar of choice for some time.

Good work Borrel! Look forward to the pics

These are seriously great kits. So glad I got to build one. Can wait to see finished pics of yours.