RC 12 ( to the nines)

Nobody is going to believe how much time and $$$ went into changing this " Pit Bull" into a lady. But alas, the money is spent, the paints dry, it's strung and....,much to my surprise (and relief), it sounds better than any Chickenbacker ever hoped to sound. But because I had to rout a deeper, larger humbucker cavity for the "Toasters"......it's a bit of a freak. One other thing. The finished wind on a 'dead' vintage toaster, using 44awg enameled copper wire, gave the pickup yield a stunning 5.8 ohm's. It RINGS !!! Thanks for reviewing it. I invite any comments or thoughts about it.



Sorry 'bout the photo download. Experienced a sizing 'snafu'. I'm working on it. Until they come through, picture this guitar like you would the Rickenbacker (360-6)? Ed Vedder was using the other night at the Oscar Award ceremony. Except for the headstock, it might have you believing in miracles. Thanks, and good luck to you all.

can't see any pictures Bill

Would love to see pics! Sounds interesting

Post it up! Let's see this baby!

Unusual string spacing on the 12 string. Was that intentional?

I started the kit knowing I was going to dump a load of cash on components. By the time I started wrapping it up, I began to sicken of it. Yea, the Rickenbacker bridge plate with two screws initially was just right when I set it up the first time. But, I didn't align it from left to right to cover the fret board evenly. After a modification, it was aligned, but offset. I believe that's what your referring to. Hey, it the melee of spending I bought 2 of the bridge plates, so I'm still in business. Thanks for checking it out.

Bill, Simon is referring to the fact that 12 strings are usually six pairs of strings with a larger gap in between each pair. Like this https://www.guitarworld.com/.image/t...photo_1jpg.jpg
I can imagine it would be a bit tougher to play with all the strings spaced evenly. You've done a lovely job of it though. It looks great.

The nut was in the kit. That's the way it wants it. I notched the bridge myself, but I stuck to centering each notch. Tell you what. I'm going to see if I can buy a different nut with that sweet acoustic spacing. I'd like that more. Thanks.

That's the standard way for electric guitars as well. Have you got pictures of the nut and the bridge (without the cover) showing the notches? You'll almost certainly need to re-notch the saddles, or maybe even replace them, in order to get the correct string spacing. The nut may be fine if it came with the kit.

Attachment 25321

Interesting that the nut was supplied that way. It's certainly unusual. I can't help thinking it might open up some interesting playing options with it's current configuration, though possibly the spacing precludes normal fretting action. Nice looking guitar though, Bill!

I'm retired with plenty of time on my hands. I've no excuse for 'hogging' the job, but time doesn't always equal out to perfection. Ability is sometimes isn't enough. Even 'talent' and 'skill' fall short. So long as experience itself has not been reduced to examples of mediocracy, it helps the most. And for gosh sakes, forget 'luck'. I use a little from each with the expectations of it being that fleeting mental image of perfection. Reality is what we get. I'm not sure that by the time adjustments are made I won't end up with a heap. Thanks for the compliment. I used Behlin String lacquer and Trans Tone wood dye. But since it's been winter up here, it was a daunting task. I'm pleased to have dodged the complications of nitrocellulose in sub-freezing temps.

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Originally Posted by Bill Jackson

. And for gosh sakes, forget 'luck'.

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I dunno about that. I see the phenomenon referred to as 'dumb luck' all the time.
Trouble is that it always happens to somebody else.

cheers, Mark.

The very first thing I noticed when I plugged it in was that 5.8 ohm neck pickup. I loved it. But the DIY honeymoon couldn't make it through the 'action'. I wasn't able to make a chord past the third fret. You, sir, are quite correct about the 'spread' and the saddle/nut. I ordered a Rickenbacker 12 string nut last night, and I'm seriously contemplating re-nothing the bridge. I'll get you a picture. Thank you for the input. It's very helpful

I used the wrong tool Dremel).

If you have a look at this picture of a Ric 12-string bridge, you can see that the notches aren't central but offset in pairs, to get the correct string spacing but still have individual string intonation available. You may be able to re-notch your saddles. or you might need some new ones.

Attachment 25346

I'd use a triangular needle file to put a V-notch in the saddles. Alternatively the Gibson way to notch the saddles is to put the strings on the saddles in the required position then hit each string into its saddle with a hammer. New strings then get fitted before the guitar leaves the factory. But that's an expensive method as 12-string sets aren't cheap.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

If you have a look at this picture of a Ric 12-string bridge, you can see that the notches aren't central but offset in pairs, to get the correct string spacing but still have individual string intonation available. You may be able to re-notch your saddles. or you might need some new ones.

Attachment 25346

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hi Simon, in this pic the strings in sequence appear to go thick thin - thick thin etc, wheras pabs pic above is opposite?
is there a standard or does it not matter and just an option? maybe a lefty? never seen a 12 in rl myself, interesting thread.

guitar looks very nice btw Bill

Rickenbacker use a reversed string pattern to the normal 12-string arrangement. It's one of those things that help give the Ric 12-strings their very jangly sound. Very difficult to nail it with a normal thin-thick pattern.

Rickenbacker, for reasons best known only to them, have always strung their 12 string electrics "back to front". Conventional wisdom is that the octave string is above the standard so that all strings will ring out properly when you downstroke a chord. All other major guitar companies use the octave above standard configuration.

I would be interested to know if this string spacing is the norm for these kits.
One of these was top of the list for my next build but I think this would put me right off.

Bill said he notched the saddles himself, so they don't come like that. Also, it's not the standard kit bridge (which is a standard Tune-O-Matic type).

Here's the standard kit plastic nut (which you'll probably want to replace with a bone one) showing standard 12-string spacing.

Attachment 25347

Thanks Simon, that's good news.
Have to wait til my birthday (August) for this - plenty of time to think about upgrades though!

Very few (almost zero) adjustable 12-string bridges out there. I had a neat one on a 12-String Yamaha Pacifica (albeit the string spacing was far too narrow for me so I passed it on) but that Ric one is the only other one I've seen.

There'll be an intonation compromise on the octave pairs with a six-saddle TOM, but as you'll rarely have a 12-string in tune it wont matter anyway. ;)

Probably right. I hated toying with it. I used a Stew-Mac fret file to shave the 45 degree corresponding angles....down about a millimeter and one-half. There remains a very slight indentation, but hardly visible. What I do now is in uncharted water. But I'm going with an old center punch with a point filed sharp (like a slotted screw driver) Think it'll work? Thanks.

That nut is similar to the kit product. I nearly bought a 'Tusq' type, but I got a Ric 12 string nut on Ebay. By the way, what kind of tool cuts a notch in a saddle? Now that I removed the 12 saddles, I could put them in a vise one at a time and whack it with confidence.

You'll probably still want to adjust the nut slot depth, and you've really got two methods. The first (and best way IMO) is to buy a set of nut files. This is worth it if you've plan to make several guitars, have guitars that need to set up, or want to do a really good job. StewMac sell them. http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...ic_Guitar.html You might want to buy a set + some individual files dependent upon the gauge of strings you plan to use on your guitar, so look at the gauges in your normal 12 string set.

I cut my slots by eye, just angling the nut file slightly down towards the headstock side of the nut. I sometimes over-cut the depth and have to replace the nut, so I keep a store of bone nuts for Fender and Gibson style nuts that I buy several off at a time. With the extra pressure required to hold down 12 strings instead of 6, you'll want to get the strings as low as possible over the 1st fret , which helps reduce the open string action height all along the neck and so the force needed to press all the strings down, especially near the nut.

The second is to remove the nut by multiple gentle taps with a hammer via a small wood block. Then clean glue from the slot. Replace the nut and string up so the nut is just held under string tension. Determine by how much the strings generally need to be lowered so that they still clear the 1st fret so you know roughly how much the nut needs lowering. Slacken the strings, remove the nut and sand the base down a bit on a flat piece of sandpaper. Sand a bit, replace the nut, tighten the strings and see where you are. It's better to make several small reductions rather than risk one big one, and over-sand and get string buzz on the first fret. Once the nut is the right height, You can stick it in place with a wipe of woodglue/Titebond, using sting pressure to clamp it in place. I'd leave it overnight before retuning. If you sand too far you can either get a new nut and repeat the process, or add a veneer shim under the nut (which may then require a bit more sanding).

You can use nut files to notch your saddles exactly, though most pre-notched saddles come with an equal sized V-notch in them which seems to work with all string gauges. You cab do this with the edge of a small triangular shaped file. Needle file sets will have one of these.

Whatever you use to notch the saddles, just make sure that the notches are of equal depth. They don't need to be very deep at all, just enough to keep the string in place. The deeper you notch, the higher the bridge needs to be to compensate, and I prefer to keep my bridges as low as possible to make them more secure. I'd prefer to file the notches if the saddles were out of the bridge rather than just lay some string over them and hit it with a hammer.

However, I'd still prefer to mark the string positions first with the saddles on the bridge and it all strung up, as you will get the best positions for the notches and can ensure that you position the strings an equal distance apart for each pair, and that each pair is a balanced distance apart.

As far as 'rules of thumb', you're the master. It's uncanny that what you recommend is almost exactly as I see it. That said, even when I know better, I still resort to a half-ass method. The question of 'why' has haunted me for ages. I've spent a good deal of time contemplating how to reconcile impulsiveness with good judgement and common sense.I guess it boils down to the bottom line.
P.S. I was thinking needle file, but I've never seen one with a sharp enough edge. When I finish punching those saddles, I'll send a picture. We'll compare notes. Thanks.

Yes, I don't always follow my own good advice/knowledge and I always end up kicking myself afterwards. Hope it all goes well.

Eddy would find this one hard to play with the string spacing as is, apart from the obvious mistake, how did you fit the strings into the tail piece? only 6 slots so did you fit 2 strings per slot?

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Originally Posted by Fretworn

Rickenbacker, for reasons best known only to them, have always strung their 12 string electrics "back to front". Conventional wisdom is that the octave string is above the standard so that all strings will ring out properly when you downstroke a chord. All other major guitar companies use the octave above standard configuration.

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It's got to do with the 12-6 converter comb.