First Build: Red and Black Wilko Johnson Telecaster

Hey Guys,

Really, really impressed with some of the builds I’m seeing you put together!

I’m booked in to do a week-long classical guitar building course in the summer, and thought I’d warm up by putting an electric kit together (a telecaster—a red and black one like Wilko Johnson’s, for those of you who are as old as me).

Two quick questions:

1) For positioning the bridge, how do you find the centerline? Do you split the difference down the attached neck and carry on a pencil line through the body?

2) Sanding.

On the Pitbull website it says to start sanding with 120 or 180 grit, and don’t go past 220 grit so there’s still some tooth for the stain.

However, as an experiment, straight out the box I just stroked the body with 2,000 grit (yes, that fine) and already it feels like a newborn’s posterior. If Pitbull says, “sand, sand, and then sand again” what am I missing, because it already feels perfect..?

Thanks and best,

Mark

You don't need a glassy finish on the wood because of the difficulties of getting the finish to bind, a little bit of barely perceptable roughness provides the key for the stain / paint, sealer / undercoat.

For my builds I have bolted the neck up, taken a centreline and marked it out from there, I do use low tack masking tape ( the blue stuff ) for marking out so I don't finish up having to get these lines off the timber.

Remember when you set the scale length that the route for the bridge pickup is often not quite in the right place and may require some adjustment, the E1 string is the shortest from nut to bridge and the E6 ( the fat one ) the longest and you need adjustment for intonation across all the strings so bear this in mind before cutting and drilling.

For the bridge pickup route, get the bridge place without the PU in place and once that's taken care of check the the PU fits the cavity without bind

Good luck with the build and ask questions as they arise, lots of clever people on here who are more than happy to help

Hi Mark and welcome!

If you are going to stain, then you need to be sure that you haven't gone past 220-240 grit else the stain simply won't soak in. If you are going to paint, then you might be okay at 2000, but you'd probably going to want to go back over it with 600-800, agian just to give the undercoat something to hang on to.

The Sand, sand, sand mantra is due to some of the machine sanding marks present in the factory bodies. If you wipe the body down with Gum Turpentine it will show up the machine sanding scratches as well as any glue spots that will need to be dealt with.

Even paint needs something to grab on to. If you sand that fine and then paint, it will just peel off eventually.

Like FW said, the reason for starting on a low grit and working your way up is to remove scratches and marks you might not even see until you hit it with stain and then it's a much bigger job to rectify.

"For my builds I have bolted the neck up, taken a centreline and marked it out from there...."

I hear you Dave, but how exactly do you take a centerline? Do you measure across the neck at the first fret, divide by two, then make a mark. Then do the same thing at various frets down the board, finally joining up the dots and dropping the pencil mark like a plumbline onto the body where you then use it to fix the center of the bridge...?

THank you,

Mark

"you need to be sure that you haven't gone past 220-240 grit"

Understood FW. I suppose I'm just surprised by how good the sanded finish is already, straight out of the box.

Gum turpentine eh? Never heard of it. Thanks for the tip, I'll pick some up tomorrow.

Mark

Yes, measure across the fretboard at various points and mark the centre (on some masking tape on the fret). The fretboard dots can wander a bit from the true centre, so measuring at several points should give you a good average. With the neck clamped in place I then run some fishing line along the neck's centre and continue it down onto the body. This also helps to align the neck's centre with body routs etc.

Something like this:
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...TB-neck_09.jpg

Dr Feelgood fan eh? You have very good taste! Just at the mockup stage of a build here so I'm all eyes and ears, so much great info on here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark Gill

"you need to be sure that you haven't gone past 220-240 grit"

Understood FW. I suppose I'm just surprised by how good the sanded finish is already, straight out of the box.

Gum turpentine eh? Never heard of it. Thanks for the tip, I'll pick some up tomorrow.

Mark

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Gum turpentine is recommended over mineral turps as it is less nasty. It still pongs though. Your local big green shed should have it.

Weirdy has answered in pretty clear fashion so I'll leave it there

There are variations available on Weirdy's method. If the neck is a good fit in the pocket, then some people will screw the neck on rather than clamp it. You can run a straight edge down each side of the neck, draw lines on the body and work out a centreline from that.

But with a Tele, it's often easier to use those marks as a guide rather than gospel. Set the bridge saddles forwards with about 5mm of thread showing at the front. Fit the top and bottom E tuners (don't fit the small anti-turn screws yet) then run string from these to the E saddles on the bridge. The strings should run so that they are parallel with the edge of the neck. That sets the centre position. Measure the scale length (25.5"/648mm) from the neck side of the nut (top E position) to the middle of the top E saddle (where the string will sit). That sets the fore/aft position. Double check both measurements before marking and drilling the fixing screw holes.

Note that 1 or 2 mm difference in the fore/aft position won't matter as there's a lot of intonation adjustment available, but you don't want your strings wandering off to one side of the neck, so that positioning is really important. You should also find that there's a 1mm-2mm gap between the front of the bridge and the edge of the pickguard. They shouldn't be touching (just look at any picture of a real Tele), whereas the control plate should snugly in the cut-out in the pickguard.

Unless the factory have changed their templates, You'll probably find that the bridge pick-up rout is a bit too far forwards, and you may have to extend it backwards slightly to fit the pickup in. You can use a router to do this, though a lot of people simply use a drum sander attachment on a Dremel, or use a chisel. It's all hidden under the bridge plate, so unless you have really bad OCD, it doesn't matter if it looks a bit ragged.

Welcome Mark. Great design to copy.

[QUOTE=WeirdBits;159049]Yes, measure across the fretboard at various points and mark the centre (on some masking tape on the fret). The fretboard dots can wander a bit from the true centre, so measuring at several points should give you a good average. With the neck clamped in place I then run some fishing line along the neck's centre and continue it down onto the body. This also helps to align the neck's centre with body routs etc.
_____________________________

Yup, that's what I did.

Brilliant. Thanks Weirdy

Thanks so much for your trouble Simon!

Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fretworn

Welcome Mark. Great design to copy.

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Thanks mate.

Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankenWashie

Gum turpentine is recommended over mineral turps as it is less nasty. It still pongs though. Your local big green shed should have it.

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Went to the hardware store and they don't know what gum turpentine is (I'm in California).

Is it this: http://www.kleanstrip.com/product/tu...for-california


??

"Klean-Strip® Turpatine is made from 100% Pure Gum Spirits Turpentine". Yes, that's the stuff. Also to be found in art shops as it's the turpentine artists normally use to thin oil paints.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

"Klean-Strip® Turpatine is made from 100% Pure Gum Spirits Turpentine". Yes, that's the stuff. Also to be found in art shops as it's the turpentine artists normally use to thin oil paints.

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Thanks again Simon

Hi Guys. Quick question: would you use this vintage amber on a telecaster neck (http://guitarkitbuilder.blogspot.com...20String%20335) whose body is black with a red pick guard, or would you leave it clear (I have some Stewmac Tried and True Original Wood Finish).

This is the telecaster: https://www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/...ic-guitar-kit/

?

Hi Mark, this would have to be your own preference. Personally, I prefer clear, but you may prefer amber.
Gav's 12 string is finished in Tru oil, which unfortunately is not available to you in California. The tru oil gives a nice amber look anyway.
You could probably achieve a similar result with danish oil.

The Wilco Johnson Tele does have a fairly dark neck, and the kit maple is pretty light in colour, so I'd say you'd need at least one amber coat. The more coats, the darker the look. Then I'd go over it with several clear coats for more protection.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy40

Hi Mark, this would have to be your own preference. Personally, I prefer clear, but you may prefer amber.
Gav's 12 string is finished in Tru oil, which unfortunately is not available to you in California. The tru oil gives a nice amber look anyway.
You could probably achieve a similar result with danish oil.

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Or the Tried and True...?

M

Thanks Simon!

On a slightly different note, do you need to sand the actual fingerboard? Should that be stained or left the original color of the wood (even if you stain the back of the necK)? I assume that should be finished with the Tried and Tue also? Or would you use a different oil?

M

I've also started staining the body with Angelus Leather Dye. Thing is, two applications just got completely sucked up, but it still isn't dead-of-night-goth-black yet. Should I give it another one and finsh the bottle? Or will too much dye mean the Tried and True finish doesn't take very well?

M

A standard Fender neck with maple fretboard will be lacquered all over. But it's up to you as to what you do with the fretboard. You can finish it the same as the back, you can simply wax it, or just apply a suitable oil if you like the bare-wood feeling. Without a solid protective finish on it, the fretboard will probably get dirty very quickly. Acidic sweat on your fingers will corrode the strings over time and the rust and dead skin from your fingers plus general dirt will get pushed into the wood. It's less noticeable on darker rosewood and ebony necks, which is why they are normally unfinished, but shows up more on lighter maple.

I can't see how more dye will stop the finish adhering to the wood. If there was any tendency for this to happen, then 'almost black' is going to be just as bad as 'really black'. The dye won't fill up all the pores in the wood so the finish will still be able to sink in. Only the first couple of finish coats will really sink into the wood. After that, the new finish coats will just stick to the finish beneath it.

Oops—did i just start a totally new thread? Is that allowed (or advisable)?


So I'm giving my maple neck the gentlest of massages with 2000 wet and dry paper. It was already good, but I feel a real silky improvement.

However—and this might be my imagination—but I could swear that this black sandpaper is leaving dirty marks on the neck.

Is there something one could use to wash it (I don't want to use water)..?

Mark

You did, and it's not a great idea. I'll flag it and see if Brendan can append these posts to the original thread. http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...ead.php?t=8320

Use turps, white spirit or metho. You are probably getting the marks because the wet 'n' dry paper isn't very good and the grains are coming unstuck and embedding in the wood grain. I bought cheap wet 'n' dry paper myself from eBay and the same happened to me. I'd suggest trying to find some better stuff.

Sorted. No worries.

Thanks Brendan!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Thanks Brendan!

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THanks Simon and Brendan

Here to help Mark.
B

Set the bridge saddles forwards with about 5mm of thread showing at the front. Fit the top and bottom E tuners (don't fit the small anti-turn screws yet) then run string from these to the E saddles on the bridge. The strings should run so that they are parallel with the edge of the neck. That sets the centre position. Measure the scale length (25.5"/648mm) from the neck side of the nut (top E position) to the middle of the top E saddle (where the string will sit). That sets the fore/aft position. Double check both measurements before marking and drilling the fixing screw holes.

you don't want your strings wandering off to one side of the neck, so that positioning is really important.

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So Simon, I’ve extended lines from the sides of the neck AND run a line down the middle of the fretboard. Both methods agree to within a millimeter where center is.

I’m showing 5mm of thread, bridge is at 25.5” scale length, I’ve got both E strings strung, but my question is:

How do you hold the bridge in position while you go about the very fine business (a mil left or right seems to throw the parallelism of the strings off considerably) of fixing its final place?

(Btw how do you upload pics to this site? Alert box keeps telling me upload "failed")

Gormless Mac User

Greetings fellow Mac user :)

There are a couple of ways to get pics into your post. To use the forum uploader they need to be less than 1mb and 1500px wide.

You can get around that and the 5 picture limit by hosting on Imgur:

http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...ead.php?t=8108

Or am I just being too anal......?

Do you mean regarding the bridge placement? When I did my TL I got it all lined up then marked with pencil the required holes. Then you can move the bridge out of the way and drill your pilot holes. Being careful is good. You want to get it as centred as possible.

When I did my TL I got it all lined up then marked with pencil the required holes.

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So sorry, I'm really not communicating very well. How do you get it all lined up when you have both E strings installed, and you're trying to get those strings equidistant from the edge of the neck, but the bridge isn't actually screwed on to the body? Do you clamp the bridge on then do some fine measuring on the E strings..?

(It wouldn't be so crucial if the bridge had an adjustment to go a few mil laterally left and right once it was screwed on)

Ah I see, are you using the actual guitar strings? I just used some normal household string and knotted it through the tuner holes. Process was:

I first attached the neck. Pushing the edge of it hard up against the bridge pocket- particularly towards the upper 'horn'. I clamped it in place and drilled the pilot holes into the neck (be carful of the depth! check against the screws - I often tape the drill bit at the depth I want to drill to). Then screw the neck on with the back plate. You'll probably find the predrilled holes are a bit misaligned. You can widen the diameter of these a bit if it helps, then when screwing the screws in, do it progressively going from corner to corner. With the neck secured you can take the clamp off and line everything up to is fixed point. I placed the pick guard on with the bridge to get that gap nice (this was also where I noticed the bridge pick up cavity being a tad small and slightly too far away from the neck for my liking).

Then draw your two e 'strings' over the bridge and move everything around until you get good spacings to the edge all along the fret board. I did this purely by eyeballing it. With the neck fixed and the strings taut you should be able to see pretty clearly if they are off. Then mark everything off with a pencil. You can pre drill the mounting holes, but care will need to be taken during finishing that no water from any wet and dry sanding gets in them or the wood will swell and the finish will crack. Does that help?

https://i.imgur.com/DNNWkREl.jpg

[QUOTE=Sonic Mountain;160473]Ah I see, are you using the actual guitar strings? I ...
Does that help?
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Oops, so when you guys say "strings" you don't actually mean "strings" but "strings" :D

Yes, thank you so much, that really does help.

Ok, so now I think I've got the bridge lined up, but the (after sales) pickguard is now miles away from the bridge (I measure it at 7 millimeters).

Should I leave that gap, or move the bridge forward and just let the six individual bridge adjuster screws stick out more (If I move the front of the bridge to 2/3mm from the pickguard, then the adjuster screws will stick out from the bridge 9 mm (about a fourth of the screw shaft) even before I begin the intonation process)..?

Or should I just try to find shorter bridge adjuster screws..?

Mark


Attachment 24705Attachment 24705

I don't know how I upoladed two pictures..

All good. I had a similar gap to the Pitbull pick guard.

https://i.imgur.com/ReR4kNol.jpg

This is how mine ended up. I had to enlarge the bridge pick up cavity about an extra 5mm towards the neck to get it here. I had no problems with intonation adjustment. In this pic the top adjustment for the B & E strings is way back so I could see when the spring started to bind. There was no issue with the bridge adjuster screws sitting out too far.

https://i.imgur.com/uuSj2p4l.jpg

Once it was together this is where they ended up after adjustment - perfectly normal.

https://i.imgur.com/MfqRemZl.jpg

The scale length is 648mm - so long as that falls roughly halfway up the adjuster screws you are fine.

If you look here 648mm falls just on the neck side of the adjuster screw halfway point. This leaves loads of adjustment each way for intonation.

https://i.imgur.com/NxnJpBQl.jpg