My RCA-4 Build :-)

Hello everyone.
Starting this thread to document the build of my 'Ric' bass. I intend to do a good job of it so expect progress to be slow.
I have built a Tele from a kit before which went through a few manifestations before ending up like this:-
Attachment 23795
If I remember right the Tele came with everything pre-drilled originally so I expect the bass will be more of a challenge with having to locate the neck and bridge.
I think I am going to build it as it comes apart from the cheapy ebay bridge I have bought which I think looks better than the one supplied.
Obligatory test fit pic :-
Attachment 23796
One thing is for sure - it will be stereo so first question is has anyone else on here done that? I am chewing over whether to do it with a second jack socket or a single stereo one with a switch for mono / stereo as this guy has done https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnwT7Pjwv3Y
see around 10 minutes in to the vid.
Electrics is my least favoured subject in guitar building / modifying so any advise or suggestions gratefully received :-)
Other than that, I cant decide what to do for finish yet. IMHO Fireglo is [I]the[I] classic Ric finish but I don't particularly like it and don't fancy my chances of doing a decent DIY job of it.
I want to bring out the grain so, probably going for Wudtone of some description but still no idea what!

To finish for now just want to say how impressed I am with the quality of the kit - the routing of the body and cut outs is super sharp and what an amazing job has been done on the builds on here. The bar is set very high.

Let the adventure begin :-)

Gary

Welcome Gary. the electronics is my least favourite part of a build as well. Wudtone is a great product to start your guitar finishing journey with. Easy to use and great results. Some of the colours (Black Magic Woman, and the greens and blues) can give a less consistent finish. Browns, reds and yellows seem to be the best choice if you have any uncertainty. When using Wudtone you need to make sure that you deal with any glue spots first as these won't stain.

Welcome Gary. I think there have been a few people on here who have contemplated doing a stereo RC, but I can't recall anyone actually doing it (could be wrong).

First thing you need to decide is if you want twin jacks or just one, as that will determine how your mono/stereo is controlled (via a switched stereo jack or just a mini toggle switch). You will also need a Switchcraft style 3-way toggle switch as the pickup selector as you can separate its outputs/poles for the stereo, rather than the combined output of the stock switch. That way you have your volume/tone for each pickup, then the pickup selector, then the mono/stereo split as required.

Once you work out exactly what you want we can help you work out how to do it.

Thanks for the tips regarding Wudtone Fretworn.

Scott, thank you for your comments.
Having looked at the location for the jack socket relative to the control cavity I think that to use two sockets they would ideally need to be positioned either side of the existing. Could be done by filling the existing hole with a piece of dowel and then drilling two new ones but this would be stretching my woodworking skills a bit too far.
So decision made to stick with single jack and have a stereo / mono switch.
This means I need to acquire a few bits - stereo jack socket, Switchcraft style toggle switch (thanks for that info Scott) and a mini toggle for the stereo / mono switch.

Nice kit Gary, hope you enjoy the build!

I second that JohnH, nice kit Gary.

Quick question - I have had the neck clamped in place to make a start on locating the bridge.
I know some people had problems with the end of the heel being out of square and needing some remedial work.
I have this problem but only to the tune of around 1mm resulting in a small tapered gap like this:-
Attachment 23837
Apologies, really bad phone pic.
Anyway, is this worth worrying about or will the gap just fill with glue when I come to fit the neck properly.

Another question while I'm here - I have seen differing opinions on how best to set the saddles when locating the bridge, either in the middle of their adjustment or towards the end. What is the latest thinking on that?

Thanks in advance for any comments
Gary

Hi Gary,

First, I'd like to say that I have not done a RC build. so my comments are quite general.

The square of the heel does not need to butt up against the pup rout. That being said I would probably shim it with pieces of veneer because I am OCD like that.

I also don't think that how square it is to the pup rout is a good indication of whether the neck is in line. I would first make sure that the positioning of the neck does not impede the neck pup surround and that pickguard. then get the bridge placement right in accordance with the scale length. maybe sit it there with some double sided tape

I would then use two pieces of string (or fishing line) in the high and low string saddles to run from the bridge, through the nut and to the machine heads. then use that method to align the neck and the bridge so it is square and the the high and low strings run equally down the neck.

Theres a good photo of this method on Marcel's black SG.

Thats one way of doing it, happy to stand corrected on a better method.

Thank you Andy.
I did test fit the neck pup and pickguard. As it happens the neck can only move a few mm backwards and forwards as I think the heel and socket are slightly tapered. It is a very nice fit. The pup has plenty of room to adjust to suit wherever the neck ends up.
Having offered everything up again it looks like the neck is best moved further from the body as the pickguard then follows the body shape better and looking at photos of other builds the frets meet the body at the right spot.
Having done that I then did what you suggested and lined the bridge up using some cotton thread.
Everything seems to line up sweetly :-

Attachment 23860

So I have marked out positions for the bridge and pickguard screws.
I am going to leave it there for now then go back and test fit everything again before getting the drill out.
Measure twice, cut once!! :-)

Now off to do some research into levelling and dressing the frets as I want to do that before starting sanding.

I must make an effort to take some better photos from now on!

Further progress has ben made.
I set everything up again to re-check positions and have now drilled fixing holes for the bridge and pickguard.

Not something I have attempted before but encouraged by the advise on here I have levelled and dressed the frets.
I managed this with stuff I had lying around - a piece of aluminium angle that I had previously cut into two flat strips (for a long forgotten project of some sort). One strip was perfect length for the fret board so I used an angle grinder to cut slots for the frets and it made a perfect straight edge.
The neck had a convex curve amounting to about 3mm over its length which I thought was a lot but took only a minor tweak of the truss rod to get it straight.
I had a long spirit level that I was able to use with some emery cloth stuck to it to check the frets for level.
They were pretty good but a couple were low which meant the majority needed a little height taken off. Even so only took 10-15 mins to do this.
Then used a triangular file which I also had already to re-crown the frets. This was a bit tedious but even so only took an hour or so.
I then went through a few grades of emery down to 1200 before using wire wool then metal polish.
A very satisfying job and I am pleased with the result.
Don't have any pics as I masked the fingerboard straight away to protect it when I start sanding.

A couple of bits have arrived - Switchraft toggle (cost nearly 10% of the price of the guitar :-)) and stereo jack so am giving some thought to how they will be made to work.

Next up is the sanding :-)

Nice work on the fret job Gary, good on you for doing it without any special tools.

Nice work Gary!
The learning process and methods used to suit how many tools you have can spark great results when you have to think out the box.
Looking forward to seeing this come together.

Thanks for the comments guys.
It really is encouraging as a newbie to have interest from some of the amazing builders on here.

I have finally made a decision on what to do for a finish and have ordered some Wudtone materials. Not going to reveal what unit I have laid some on to see if it works !
Also decided that as I want to show the grain off as much as possible will minimise what is hidden so I am going to just have a control cavity cover and neck pick up ring and do away with the rest of he pickguard. Have ordered some material for this which I hope will compliment the finish better than the white supplied with the kit. Slight problem is that having drilled pilot holes for the pickguard screws I now have three holes that I don't need. Hopefully can fill those with cocktail sticks and they should not be too apparent after I have sanded.

Having made those decisions I am back to undecided about the electrics. Thinking that a stereo and a mono jack socket might work best afterall :confused:
We'll see!

Right, the bullet has been bitten and I took a hole saw to my lovely new guitar body and we now have provision for stereo and mono jack sockets.

Attachment 24055

Attachment 24056

The retaining plate (or whatever you want to call it) I made from a bit of a scrap pickguard just to try the idea.
I was surprised at how stiff it was but a quick dunk in some boiling water and it curved nicely.
Its a bit thick though and I'd really like to make a recess for it to fit flush but I might just end up chamfering the edges so it looks better.
The finished article will match the new pickguard and pup ring that I am making in pearlescent black.

Quick question while I'm here - I know what I need to finish with but what grade grit is recommended to start sanding with?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gary B

Right, the bullet has been bitten and I took a hole saw to my lovely new guitar body and we now have provision for stereo and mono jack sockets.

Attachment 24055

Attachment 24056

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Love that you're doing a stereo RC. Pretty damn cool! And I like the pickguard retaining plate - looks cool to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gary B

Quick question while I'm here - I know what I need to finish with but what grade grit is recommended to start sanding with?

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Great start.

As you are not dealing with veneer top you can start as coarse grained as you need. I start with 80 grit to get rid of most of the machining marks, and then work up the grades from there. I find most of the work is done with 80, 100, 120. I even use 80 grit sandpaper for neck profile shaping, I've never found that I needed to crack out the rasp.

I'd go with your edge chamfering idea for the jack plate. A tug on a guitar lead can put a lot of force on the jack plate, so it needs to be pretty sturdy, so thinning it down could weaken it too much and you'd probably end up replacing it pretty quickly.

Thanks Simon that's a good point!
Fretworn, thanks for the info. I am running out of reasons not to get on with th sanding so I had best make a start over the weekend.
Rook, thanks for your comments. I will be keeping a close eye on your build. Nice work you have done on the body shaping.
A few of these basses are cropping up and the moment as it is great to see how everyone adds their own touches. Same applies to all the other models of guitar on here of course.

Right, I think I'm done with sanding so time to start applying some finish.
Last couple of pics while it is still naked wood and showing the plastic part I have made.
The pickup ring was a real pain to do :-)

Attachment 24361
Attachment 24362

I like the pearlescent black, and good work on adding the stereo jack. Look forward to seeing it all under a finish

Whats the chance of this, RCA-4 from Aus and yours lands just up the road from me. I am in Poynton and finished my RCA-4 in November. I also used Wudtone (BMW). Have a look at my build diary for pitfalls :)

Well that is amazing:-)
I know there are a few brits on here but being so near and building the same guitar - as you say what are the chances.
I have had a good look at your build diary and was suitably impressed.
I was in Poynton on Thursday night to see the Billy Walton Band!

Well I don't know how it is for the rest of you but that is quite a moment applying the first bit of finish to that lump of wood you have grown to know and love over the past weeks.
I agonised over what finish to go for but finally decided to try a burst with Wudtone Hot Auburn on the outer and Burning Sun inner.
This is looking exactly as I had hoped. There are some edges a little harder than I would like but I am sure I can blend them with further coats and I think I need to be a bit less subtle with the darker colour.
But overall I am well happy with this :)

Attachment 24414

Phone photo under fluorescent light not the best but hopefully you get the idea

Very nice colour, Gary.

The blending is the hardest part of doing a burst, but you've picked the right colours to get a great result.

Looking good, Garry.

Is this sprayed or done by hand?

Been thinking of trying a burst myself. Would love to hear about your process and what you learned by doing it. What you would do differently, etc...

And I agree with you, you could go darker around the edges. Nice work!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rook

Looking good, Garry.

Is this sprayed or done by hand?

Been thinking of trying a burst myself. Would love to hear about your process and what you learned by doing it. What you would do differently, etc...

And I agree with you, you could go darker around the edges. Nice work!

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Thanks Rook.
It is a stain applied by hand just rubbing into the wood with a cloth.
I have used Wudtone products as they are in the UK but I think it is similar to Dingotone which there is lots of info available on this forum!
I should think there will be similar products available in Canada or the US.
If you search on Youtube for 'Wudtone sunburst' there are a couple of videos showing how it is done.
Basically they recommend starting with the darker colour so I went around the outside of the body first then a narrow band around the edge of the front. Then the lighter colour from the inside out to meet the dark. Then it is just a case of blending the join by adding more of whichever colour you think it needs.
It really is quite straightforward to do.
I guess if you wanted to you could do a 3 (or more) colour burst by the same method.
The stains I am using have a deep colour coat which is applied first. That is the stage I am at and will probably give it 2 maybe 3 coats. Then there is a base coat (seems odd that it goes on second!) then a clear top coat which has options for satin, gloss, ageing etc.

I have done a Danish Oil and a couple of rattle can spray finishes on guitars in the past but this is my first time using this sort of stain and I am finding it good so far!

As it is quite cold in my guitar workshop (aka the loft) I am going to leave at least 48hrs between applications of stain so have had to turn my thoughts to the electrics.
I spent some time figuring out how the selector switch and stereo jack work and think I have come up with a plan as sketch below.

Attachment 24424

I'm sure this is laughably simple (or completely rubbish) to those who understand this sort of thing but I would be grateful for any comments (WeirdBits if you are out there?)
Looking at this again if this would work then could I just run the wires to the tip and ring terminals on the stereo jack and from there to the common on the mon jack?

Thanks in advance for any advice
Gary

To get it to work properly you'll need to get a replacement selector switch, otherwise you can't separate the two pickup outputs so one goes to each jack. You may also need a different type of jack for the main socket. There are wiring diagrams for it on the Ric website.

Thanks Simon.
I have the switchcraft selector switch.
Will have to look into the jack socket??

Your diagram has the correct idea but unfortunately won't work. As you have both outputs from the switch joined at the mono jack then they'll also be permanently linked for both channels of the stereo jack. What you need is to either separate the two signals/outputs whenever a stereo plug is inserted, whcih requires a 'switched' stereo jack. Or, connect the two signals when a mono plug is inserted (which is how Rics do it), which requires a 'switched' mono jack.

Stereo switching requires a standard mono jack and something like the normally closed Switchcraft 14B stereo jack (there are other types):

Attachment 24431

Essentially one output from the switch goes to both the switching lug & ring lug on the stereo jack and then to the tip of the mono jack. The other output from the switch goes to the tip lug on the stereo jack. When there's no plug in the stereo jack the tip shorts with the switching lug and thus connects your two outputs for the mono jack, but when a stereo plug is inserted the two outputs are separated as two channels.

Mono switching requires a standard stereo jack and something like the normally open Switchcraft 13A (I think) mono jack:

Attachment 24430

The switch outputs would go to the tip and ring lugs on the stereo jack and then to the tip and switching lug on the switched mono jack. Whenever a plug is inserted in the mono jack the switching lug gets connected and the two outputs are linked for mono output.

Scott, Thank you very much.
I had to read that a few times but now I understand!
As I have a standard stereo jack I will get the switching mono type.
I would never have worked this out without your help so thanks again :-)

At the Legion I presume ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stuzl873213

At the Legion I presume ?

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Yes that's right.
Good music and good beer - ticks a lot of boxes for me :-)

Progress update -
I have done 3 deep colour coats and 3 base coats.
It is fair to say the burst idea didn't work. I think I chose two colours too close to each other so when trying to blend I just mixed the two into one halfway shade.
There are a few uneven patches where I think I have sanded too much or more likely not enough but I'll live with that as I think it keeps some of the natural vibe of the wood.
I am really pleased with the neck as I know the maple doesn't take the stain too well but it has come up really silky with almost a glow to it in the right light.

Attachment 24746
Attachment 24747
Attachment 24745

So a couple of days to cure then clear coat on the body but I'm going to leave the neck as it is

I like the very subtle burst effect you've achieved. It looks very classy to me and I'd be happy with it if it was mine.

It's very difficult to get exactly the finish you want using stains unless you are very experienced. Until you get to that stage (and that certainly not me), as long as you end up with a finish you are happy with. then consider it a job well done.

Thank you Simon that is very much appreciated.
I am certainly happy with it even though it isn't quite what I had in mind :-)

That is a lovely stain colour, I've used Wudtone a couple of times but not that one........yet

That’s come up really well Gary!

Thanks for the positive comments guys.
I 'unmasked' the fretboard and found that the binding was mostly clean with just a bit of scraping to do in a couple of area.

Attachment 24761

JohnH I am very impressed with your acoustic refurb thread.
You have inspired me to dig out my first guitar. It is a sorry looking, cheap and nasty nylon strung acoustic which has been long neglected. My next project will be to see if I can inject some life back into it :-)