GOTM thoughts and suggestions

Hey Peeps,
Following on from the discussion re pro finishes on GOTM entries, this is the place to post any thoughts, suggestions and ideas.
Hopefully from this we can sort this out once and for all :)

I do not mind at all. If its a PBG kit and the entrant has put the thing together (mostly) and has had help from anyone else, forumite or professional, no worries. heaps of people have had help with their wiring in the past and its not been an issue. :)

But I do agree with what you said in the other post DB, that it should be disclosed and the judges will take that into account when scoring

i don't see it's a problem with disclosure, as was done. Judges can score it how they like after that. We've all had outside assistance at one point or another, in many small or slightly larger ways. I don't think it requires much more thought than that.

Maybe split them up, so that there's a GOTM entry that's been finished by someone else or a pro, then that can get judged separately? Like Andy, I'm not fussed at all if someone has helped with the soldering, but for GOTM, the kit should have been otherwise put together and finished by the forum member, only assisted by close family members. Not saying have two separate contests, just that if there is a good kit where the finish has been applied by a pro paint sprayer, then that should be brought out into a GOTM (Pro) winner category, rather than take the glory from someone who's done it all themself.

But I suggest it should be made a GOTM rule to state whether the finish was all their own effort, or had been done professionally.

To me the whole getting a pro finish Vs DIY finish should carry similar weight with the judges as putting SD or Tonerider or EMG or wind-your-own PU's in an axe build.... It is one element to the overall build, and there are many elements to every build the sum of which make it desirable and/or appealing or simply a freaking hot axe..

As part of the rules we disclose that info when we submit our build in for GOTM as not every detail is obvious from a simple photo..

If anything, maybe every GOTM entry should be accompanied with a build diary so that the judges should they choose to can closer examine various details about that build.

Sadly, if a mandatory sound clip was required for GOTM entry then for the moment I too would be out of the running on all my builds...

DB's last post in the GOTM thread is spot on.

But quite often you are only presented with 4 photos, which makes it hard to judge. Which of course you take into account but if it looks good but have no details if it's standard of anything has been upgraded, then how do you know?

Sound clips are nice, but it's easy for someone who's good at recording to get a much better recorded sound than a novice with just their phone, so you can't really base any decisions on that.

For me I don't see it as an issue. A guitar build from kit form is a sum of a whole lot of different processes including a little artistry and vision to get an end result from a blank canvas. There's no sheep stations at stake and I think that the intent was always as a bit of fun and a place to showcase what you have created.

We can get into all sorts of "arguments" here, who built the guitar..who did the finish.. who set it up... is it set up at all, how does anyone know without a sound vid and a build diary... could just be a pretty picture and the actual kit sounds crap in reality... there is I believe, and should be honesty between members, I have to agree with Andy's point & DB's last post in the GOTM thread

Klegacy brought up a good point on the rocktober thread.

First, I just preferred disclosure of what was professionally done - this does not mean any deduction of points, just something the judges should consider. Second, the amount of work (ie blood,sweat and tears) is also something I count when judging - I often review the build diaries and consider whether they have overcome any adversity when building, how they have recovered from any set backs and how that shows through the build.

The appearance of the guitar in a photo is not everything when judging at all.

I think the sum of all parts of the build are to be considered. The wiring on some kits is a lot harder than other kits. The finishing of some is different as per ones with binding take more patience when taping up etc. Whether or not someone go to the trouble of levelling the fret board etc etc etc. All of those things should be considered, as per what most of us have said. Each judge can give points as to what they deem is important to them. A build diary gives huge weight to the strugles we have all experienced in one or more aspects of the build. I don't believe upgrades should be part of the criteria because a lot of us can't afford that. For me personally the finish is a major part of a build and should be judged accordingly. I don't reckon anyone here has got it right first time, I know how many extra cans of paint I had to order. As Andy40 said it's not everything, I agree, but for something that requires a ton of patience and trial and error, sometimes re do's, lets be upfront with what we have done ourselves and what we have had done for us. In the end the judges can decide. JB

I think it's important that GOTM be recognised for what it is - a bit of fun, and a chance for some honest and positive feedback. There is no prize, outside of bragging rights. The judges don't get to see the guitars in person. To hold them, play them, see the finish up close and personal. All judgements are extremely subjective. But because there is a panel of judges, not just one or two, I think the extremes of our views get balanced out.

I tend to agree with Fretty

Spot on Fretty


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Hey all, I'm fine if a builder gets outside help with finish, wiring or whatever it maybe. I was a bit harsh with my initial comments and appreciate that Klegacy disclosed his entry was painted by a professional. In future if the entrant is honest and up front the judges can judge accordingly. Everyone has a different view so as Fretty says the scores will balance out with the different view/eye of each judge. I was just trying to protect the amatuer builders and thought it was a slightly unfair advantage.
As said its a fun competition. Let's keep it this way.
I apologised to Klegacy and hope he continues with his great looking builds and build them how you like and get as much help as you like, it's your axe after all.
As DB suggested in the Rocktober thread, its fair to judge the entry on the other aspects of the build.

All good comments guys but when judging I am like Andy and want to read the build diary and see what was done in the process of creating the finished product. For me, no build diary makes it harder to score higher than a similarly finished axe that does have one. Irrespective, I always try and provide positive or constructive feedback, avoiding any criticism at all costs in fear of offending or those comments being misunderstood. We just need to take on board how much emotional attachment each builder may have with their creation that has been offered up for judges opinions.

And as Brendan spells out each time he contacts judges it comes down to which guitar would you make a bee line for if you saw it in a guitar shop or the one you would want to take home. I think this is the base line criteria and any extras are just a bit of sauce on top.

I think the most important thing is, as others have said, we aren't playing for sheep stations here! GOTM is fun thing. On that basis I think all the "full disclosure but anything goes" comments are spot on.

Now from a personal perspective, I do think finish is a very important aspect of a build. When using a kit, a build is really a process of finish and assembly. Unless you get into reshaping or creating new bits and pieces from scratch there isn't a great deal of "building" per se. The one caveat to that is when a builder has to fix things that have gone wrong - and as Andy and Waz say, that's something you learn in the build diary. So aside from the all-important "would I take her home" factor, the finish - and the skill/effort in achieving that look - is a big factor. Of course that's the advantage of a panel of judges - it generally all works out in the end!

One of the things that really impressed me about this forum is the positive attitude of the community in offering help and assistance during our builds. No Trolls upsetting the apple cart 😏. We all get various levels of help through our build diaries - it would be a shame to see any of that disappear in the interests of GOTM, so, professional help or otherwise let's keep the judging and feedback fun, comments positive and informative.