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Hey there:
So I have 2 issues. I have two SH-1 necks. One I made the mistake of using a hybrid stain on which contains sealer, varnish and stain in one product. Wondering if there is any way I could remove this product and get back to bare wood. My other neck is unfinished and I want it to have the roasted maple look and then tru-oil it for a nice smooth feel. What to use for the color? Wood dye or water based stain? Need some advice, so hoping on lots of responses.
Thanks!
Best way to remove finish, in my opinion, is sandpaper and elbow grease. I don't like chemical strippers. As for colour, no difference. The tru oil will work well with both.
You are 100% right .. about a half hour and I have it back to bare wood! No more hybrid stain. So happy. Now to do it right. So stain and tru-oil will work well eh? I am going for that roasted maple look. Thinking a walnut stain with a few coats of tru-oil.
Hit it with the walnut and then sand back lightly until you get the tone you're after, remembering it will darken and amber slightly with the oil. Or if you want authentic 'roasting' you could try blow-torching it. Inherent risks involved with that though.
I guess Minwax water based stain will be best with the tru-oil? That hybrid stain never seemed to dry fully. Really sticky, so happy to get rid of it. Picking up the stain tomorrow and got some of the tru-oil already.
Attachment 19549
American Walnut is the color of choice.
Good way to see if there are any scratches from sanding? Looks very smooth, but anything I can pre-rub on it to check this. New to finishing, so thought I would ask some questions to be sure. Just wiped it with a micro fiber cloth, and it is really smooth. up to 400 grit, and sanded by hand.
Wipe down with shellite/naptha will show any remaining scratches. Ask away, we're here to help.
My Dad showed me a good trick for surface finishes - on cars mainly, but works well for timber.
Shut your eyes and run your hands over it - if you can feel it, you can see it later...
Dyes will tend to show up scratches and machine marks as darker lines in the finish
That's a good one too Stan. I do this all the time without really thinking about it.
Yeah Pabs, building is a tactile thing
Yep, if no other solution presents itself, the touch test works well.Quote:
Originally Posted by pablopepper
Would rubbing alcohol work for raising the grain and re-sanding? Or is it worth it to do this? Would this have any effect on stain and oil application afterwards? Also is 400 grit or 600 grit too smooth for application of stain and tru-oil? Perhaps I should do a rougher sanding with 180 or 220 grit?
I would suggest you get yourself some Minwax woodstain preparation. Which exact product you need depends on the type of stain you are using. Water based or Oil based. If you chose a water based stain then any wood treatment and/or has to be the same family. Water based or Oil based.
Don't use rubbing alcohol. It will suck all the natural moisture out of the wood & will most likely lead to splotchy spots after you stain.
The tru-oil site says to use a water based stain. What does the minwax prep do? Curious. Hitting the building supply place tomorrow for sure. Excited to see these necks come to life.
Reading about it now. So I think the process will be .. water based prep, light sanding with 220 grit, apply walnut water based stain to get the right tint, light sanding, when I get the right tint, apply tru-oil. Thanks so much for the tips guys. It is really appreciated.
On more question guys .. tru-oil on the rosewood fingerboard too? Or leave it as is? Both necks are currently unfinished.
Go with something like Lemonoil for the fretboard.
On the neck, sanding up to 600 or 800 would be preferable. As the main point of contact on the guitar, the finer sanded the better.
Hi Klegacy, I've used Tru-Oil on nearly all my guitars and all my research tells me that water or spirit based dyes/stains are OK but avoid oil based stains. I have used many different brands of stain in both water and spirit based and even some stamp pad ink, all without any problems. Apparently Tru-Oil will react with or to the oils in oil based stains.
I don't use TO on my Rosewood Fretboards, but like Zandy, I have always used Lemon Oil. But there are heaps of alternatives out there. You will have to re-apply Lemon Oil at regular intervals to keep it nice and shiny though. But I have always used TO on my Maple FB's.
I recently I visited a timber retailer at Maleny and they had a couple of custom built electric guitars on display and their Fretboards were coated in twin pack poly. Very nice! But at $3,500 each they should look pretty nice.
Hi Klegacy, suggest sanding to no more than 240 grit on maple as it is a very fine and tightly grained timber where higher levels of grit will polish it so smooth there will be very little colour penetration from the stain. Pabs is right in that you want a super smooth neck but I tend to do that in the final wet sanding and polishing stages if trying to get colour into the back of the neck.
Cheers, Waz
So roughing it up a bit with 220 would be a good idea before staining? I have Minwax conditioner (prep, water based) and Minwax stain water based. Then Tru-oil to finish things off.Quote:
Originally Posted by wazkelly
Lemon oil is a very different beast to something like tru-oil. Lemon oil is just an oil that soaks into the wood and takes the place of the water that's dried out over time. The lemon oil will evaporate over time, so is best re-applied once or twice a year (it may depend on your local climate as to how fast the board will dry out). It will generally give a darker appearance to the wood it's used on, which lightens as it evaporates over time. Once you've applied it (and a board can soak up several applications if it's really dry), looking at the colour of your board will tell you when it's time to re-apply some.
Tru-oil is an oil-based finishing product that builds up a relatively hard protective surface as you add more layers and the carrier oil in the Tru-oil evaporates, so it's something you put on to start with and that's normally it. But it's not normally used for rosewood/ebony fingerboards.
Attachment 19581
Beautiful color .. a bit of sanding, and then later I am thinking it is tru-oil time. Thanks guys. A little blotchiness on one neck near the top, but nothing a bit of light sanding should correct. Special American Walnut is the color.
What is happening when the stain goes on and you cannot rub it off? This happened with the second coat on the neck I have that had the hybrid stain on it before. I actually had to sand it down to the wood again as it was a real mess. Sucks because the neck is not fitting in the pocket as tight as it was from Pitbull. Not bad mind you, but just not as snug. Will the tru-oil add a bit to the neck and perhaps correct this? I am scared to re-apply stain to this one for fear it may do this again. Is this perhaps just a case of the neck still being a bit wet? Could really use some tips on this one. The other neck worked fine and is good to go for oil I think. Thoughts?
Applied with a lint free cloth and wiped it off immediately. Got a pretty nice even coating. Was using a sponge brush, and wiping off before. Live and learn. Hope it dries even.
Hi Klegacy, suggest going easy on the area that sits in the neck pocket as it will mostly be covered up anyways. And yes, Tru Oil does add a bit of thickness after many, many layers.Quote:
Originally Posted by klegacy
Would mineral spirits work to remove stain from the neck? and could you re-apply stain successfully after cleaning with mineral spirits? Also, is there a special type of spirits for water based stain or is it all the same?
Just responded to your PM on same topic.
The more I think about it wet sanding with 400 to 800 wet & dry might be the way to go to get rid of whatever the hybrid stain has left behind.
Attachment 19602
Stain came off pretty nice with some mineral spirits and steel wool. Would like to darken it up some with stain, but will it stick like last time is the question? Not sure why it is doing this. Worked fine on the first neck, and wiped off perfectly after about 2 minutes.
Attachment 19603
Well after much headaching and learning .. I have two beautifully stained necks. Ready for some tru-oil. Could not be happier with the color. Thanks for all your tips and suggestions guys! Really appreciate it.
Attachment 19609
Drying them now, and tomorrow tru-oil. Trying to keep the humidity down in the room too.
Hi buddy, they both look almost identical. Should look unreal with some shiny top coats added.
Did my first coat of tru-oil last night on one neck. Waiting for it to dry now. Found a business card shim will make the one neck nice and snug that I sanded down a bit too much. It is all coming together. Is there a way to get the satin look like I have on my Musicman guitar necks? Curious about that. I am more of a satin neck guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by wazkelly
Once you have between 6 - 10 coats of TO the wet sanding process should bring it up in a satin kind of way.
For most store bought guitars necks I usually hit them with 1200 or higher to take the grip out of the shine and that does the trick.
Perfect I have 1500 grit at home. 12 hours between coats? Or until it does not feel tacky anymore?
Let things cure for a number of days/weeks to get best results.
Advice taken :) .. will do. They look and feel great so far. Done with the tru-oil I think, so just letting them sit for a week now. Any thoughts on getting rid of the minor edge where the rosewood stops and maple begins? Time to order some fret files now .. want to smooth them a bit in anticipation of my painted bodies. Very fun project. The color in this pic is the color I am doing for the one body. The other will be satin charcoal grey.
Attachment 19664
Ahh, ok, I see that you have removed all masking tape therefore best to let it sit for a while before doing the final polish. Meanwhile you could lightly sand back with 1500 or 2000 wet & dry grit used dry where the Tru Oil has seeped onto edge of the rosewood fret board. Once tidied up suggest applying wax to all bare rosewood surfaces as this will help keep it waterproof for when you do the final wet sand and polishing stages.