A Noob Question about PJ Bass Pickups

Hi Guys,
Recently I acquired a Squier P Bass to "keep my hand in" (although it is more like starting all over again) and find myself wanting to fit a Bridge Pickup. Has anyone here had any experience with this? I have been reading that the J Bridge Pickups have a much lower output and it is difficult to get them to match the output of the PB Pickup.
My first plan was to try the Entwhistle Neo Bridge Pickup with the Ceramic Neck one.... All the Factory Matched sets such as EMG and Seymour Duncan are cost prohibitive...... Any Thoughts??? or better still, has anyone tried it????

You could have a look at GFS pickups, they are significantly cheaper than EMG or SD alternatives and my have something to suit your needs and taste.

I used GFS pups in my PB-H4 kit, no idea how they compare to the kit pups because they went in at the build stage but they do sound rather nice

The Entwhistle Neo should provide a much hotter output than a ceramic pickup, maybe by up to 6dB (double the output). The bridge position is generally quieter anyway because the strings physically vibrate with a smaller amplitude at that position, so the bridge pickup has to be made hotter (stronger magnets or more turns of wire - or both). Neodymium magnets are stronger than ceramics. The Entwhistle Neo has the same DC resistance as the ceramic version (strangely enough I only looked at the details earlier today), so is the same basic pickup/same number of turns of wire, just with a stronger magnet.

I'm not saying that it will match the precision pickup in output, but it will certainly have a stronger output than most other offerings. The basic Squier pickups aren't the same as the better fender ones, and normally have a ceramic magnet on the bottom of steel slugs, rather than Alnico magnet pole pieces. Ceramic magnets are generally stronger than Alnico ones, which can make the output mismatch problem worse.

One thing to consider is that P bass pickups are hum cancelling and standard JB pickups aren't. So it might be worth looking for a used hum-cancelling J bass pickup if you can find one you can afford.

Totally agree with Simon's comments, it's a pity the sound on YT wasn't more true when searching sound demos and also all too often the demos have a fair number of stomp boxes in the chain to add to the confusion.

The very few ceramic pups I have used sounded bright and brittle ( Harry Chapin song quote ) compared to alnicos, that was a while back so maybe things have changed but I have never been inspired to look again.

It's all a matter of taste and what "your" sound is.

Not quite sure it's simply the ceramic magnets that make things sound bright and brittle. The original pickups on my Les Paul were the Gibson ceramics, which are certainly hot, but were very middley and lacked clarity. Certainly not bright and brittle. Maybe they cut down on the number of wire turns in your pickup, Dave, as the pickup magnets were stronger? Only guessing here. But unless I was looking for a powerful output, I'd generally avoid ceramics if possible, as they generally don't sound as nice to my ears as ones with Alnico magnets.

I guess it's in the making but it just wasn't what I was looking for.

I'm a traditional single coil guy at heart but rather bizarrely as I look at my herd I have 2 x HB basses, 3 x HB guitars and 1 x SC guitar but all with alnico magnets.

The Thinline with the 52 Blackguard pups is my go to though love the feel the dynamics and the sound of them, the rest are for specific sounds which of course is why we can never have enough

Not sure what this says about my previous comments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

One thing to consider is that P bass pickups are hum cancelling and standard JB pickups aren't. So it might be worth looking for a used hum-cancelling J bass pickup if you can find one you can afford.

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I have taken this into consideration and it is my hope to insert a phase reverse switch into the PB Pickup so, when used in conjunction with the Bridge Pickup it can be switched to parallel, and will be out of phase. That being said, when using Jazz Basses, I usually had the Neck Pickup backed off a touch which introduced an element of noise. I just had to make sure my system was working well..... (and quietly)

Alternately...

Anyone selling Noise Cancelling J Bass Bridge Pickups????

Hi Buddy, plenty of PJ combinations around, just have a look at Ibanez & Yamaha and they work fine. Plenty on this PBG site too.

I owned a couple of Ibanez P Bass copies that came with a J PUP installed from the factory. Rather than having J controls it had a Gibson style 3 way PUP selector switch and kept the master volume & master tone controls. There was no sound level difference when switching between each PUP and if the split P's were louder you would simply screw them lower into the body to balance things out.

On my J Bass build I used the Entwistle JBXN Neodium PUP's and they sound fine even though they are supposed to have ceramic magnets and cannot pick the difference between them and Alnicos. Mainly chose these for more output as J's can be a bit whimpish.

For the controls I tend to prefer a switch to the 2 volume & 1 tone as when you roll off one of the volumes there is stuff all left coming from that PUP hence one of the reasons why I made that mod on my EX-5 which came with standard J wiring.

Wiring diagrams can be found on the home page of the PBG site and here is a link to the YB4 diagram that is closest match to what you are contemplating if doing 2 vol & 1 tone http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...f/PBG-YB-4.pdf

To stick with 1 vol & 1 tone I reckon you would just add the J PUP to the existing volume pot.

Weirdbits (aka Scott) may see this thread at some stage and offer his thoughts as he is dead set the brains when it comes to all things wiring related.

I never back off the Tone, preferring maximum brightness at all times, so I intend to use the Tone Pot hole for the BP Volume Pot and have no tone Pot at all.
The Ibanez Fretless I own is a PJ style using Ibanez's Own PUs so Unsure of their equivalents.... and they are not the Standard sizes so I can't swap them out to try the sound.

I am certain I can do this, I just want to make sure I buy the right Pickups First time as I am very limited in the budget Dept.
Leaning very much towards getting an Entwhistle Neodymium Bridge Pickup along with Stock Squier PB Pickup as a starting point.

Ideally I would be using Seymour Duncans but one of those is worth almost twice what the Bass cost to start with......

Sounds like a good idea going for the Entwistle as SD's are way over priced and Tonerider would be better value if you really feel the need to spend more money. Never heard Tonerider J Bass PUP's so cannot comment on how they compare to the Entwistles which are better than the stock Chinese units they replaced.

With your Ibanez you could copy their wiring perhaps? Ditching the tone pot is a good idea, particularly if you never use it.

Standard PJ's will always be a compromise. As has already been said, J's are single coil and hum while P's are a hum-cancelling split pair. Adding a switch to reverse one coil on the P can 'un-hum-cancel' it to so it can then sort of hum-cancel with a J, but you then have out of phase issues with the reversed P coil etc. Half of the P would be in phase with the J while the other half is OOP, so two strings would sound thin and nasally... which is probably worse than the hum. There are some other things you could do, but you still lose all the good things about a P.

I'd say go with with a standard PJ wiring or, at most, add a series/parallel switch on the P. It won't make it hum-cancel with the J, or put it out of phase etc, but it does give it a different sound while still keeping it a hum-cancelling P. Then, keep your eye out for a cheap DiMarzio Ultra Jazz hum-cancelling bridge pup and stick that in if you get the chance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hobastard

I have taken this into consideration and it is my hope to insert a phase reverse switch into the PB Pickup so, when used in conjunction with the Bridge Pickup it can be switched to parallel, and will be out of phase. (and quietly)

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Unfortunately it won't be a good hum-cancelling arrangement. The PB pickup is already hum cancelling - one of the split coils is reverse wound & reverse polarity to the other split coil. So the output is (in theory) already hum free. If you change the polarity of one of the split coils, then you get the hum back, plus a small amount of phase cancellation on the A and D strings. But unless the JB pickup has a similar coil configuration (which it doesn't), the levels of hum are likely to be different and so partial hum cancellation is the best you can hope for. The JB pickup would also have to be out of phase with one of the PB split coils, so you'll end up with a thin nasal sound on two strings, a normal parallel sound on the other two strings, plus some hum.

I think it would be better to concentrate on shielding the cavities to reduce the level of hum, and go with something like the Entwhistle Neo, and then look round on eBay for a used noiseless JB pickup if hum is an issue. A few years ago I managed to pick up a used set of Bartolini noiseless JB pickups to replace a very noisy single coil set in a Yamaha BB604 for about A$60.

Awesome, thanks guys, this is exactly the information I need. I reckon I might have to leave the router on the shelf for now, bite the bullet and save my pennies for a SD Ultra Jazz. May as well do it properly. Pity this wasn't a J Bass to start with..... Actually it is the first P Bass I've owned and I'm enjoying it considerably.....

Well, I've taken Wazkelly's advice and ordered a Tonerider Bridge Pickup. Wish me luck. My mate's Dad is pretty handy on the tools and has agreed to do the routing at the local Men's Shed which he runs..... Also got a Cast Bridge and Black Pearl Pickguard on the way together with some Copper Tape and some bits and pieces.... This is getting exciting.....

All the best with it!

Wouldn't get too hung up about hum cancelling until you try it out with the Tonerider J Bridge PUP. Tend to think it will be all good so long as you follow the YB4 wiring diagram on the main PBG site.

Was jamming with a bloke before xmas who was playing a 'Reverend' guitar that was fitted with 3 x P90's and when he was touching the strings no buzz or hum but the moment he took his hands away it was hissing like a snake. Doubt the setup you have planned will be as bad as that and he was quite happy with the axe saying it was all part of the character of the thing.

The wide coils in P-90s do pick up large amounts of radiated noise, more than narrower Strat pickups do. And of course they can only pick up noise that's there in the first place. I do wonder why they don't come as standard with metal cases rather than plastic. Only some of the dog-ear P-90s had them and they are noticeably quieter.

A mate of mine had a Reverend with P-90s that he sold on eBay. He had no end of grief from the buyer because the P-90s that Reverend fitted were from a cheap US supplier rather than their own-made units they now fit. But I'm sure he'd bought it new, so maybe they didn't always make their own pickups, or not all of them.

In full flight the thing sounded awesome. Some of the tunes we played were Immigrant Song & Bring It On Home by Led Zep, La Grange by ZZ Top, Walking By Myself by Gary Moore, Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd plus many others. The soloing on Comfortably Numb was spine tingling. He was hooked up through Mesa Boogie into a 1 x 12 Marshall enclosed speaker cabinet as we were in a small venue and at moderate levels there was tons of sustain with just an edge of overdriven feedback available. Haven't had so much fun in past 30 years.

Bits and pieces are arriving thick and fast for this project now, and for a Squier I reckon it will look pretty slick, with a Gloss Black Body and lots of other Black Bits. Hopefully it will sound pretty smooth too. It's actually not too bad already, My Amp makes almost anything sound good. I also have to sort out a couple of Frets that are not quite set properly and smooth a few edges.

Now I need some Black Machine Heads. Anyone out there upgraded a Kit and have a set of Traditional style Black ones laying around their cave????

Okay, so this isn't really a Build, more of a fine tune, But I think of it as a Practice Run before I misappropriate funds from consolidated revenue for my first Kit.

(having said that, I'm loving the look of that Natural Finish PB ready Made 5 String J Bass)......

Where do I get a long Drill Bit to drill for the Bridge Pup Wiring????

Whoops double post. See next post

Hobastard the green shed sell them. Get about 2.5 or 3 mm diameter will be about 130mm long. Get a selfy while your there!!
Or you mean a 300+ mm long bit?

Don't really know how long it has to be. Have to drill from bridge pup to control cavity....

Obviously you need a long drill length so you can angle the drill bit as flat as possible without the drill body getting in the way. You should be able to measure the distance with a ruler, from the middle of the control cavity, through the bridge pup rout to the edge of the guitar plus maybe 10-20mm for safety.

Well, in the next few days, It Begins.... Just waiting on a Template for the pup.
Is it OK to turn this into a Build thread?? or should I do that elsewhere??

You're best to start a fresh build thread. This will stay here as a resource point for others looking for similar information.

Will Do Zandit, Thanks...

I gotta get this thing done, every time I think about it, I spend more money. Just ordered Orange Drop Caps, Treble Bleed Kits, Pretty Wire, CTS Pot & Switchcraft Socket from PB, to add to the growing collection of parts. I didn't know that there were so many bits on a Bass.. :D

I decided not to go without a Tone Control so I will also need a Jack Plate. Couldn't find one on the PB site,

If you have one in Black, guys it would be much appreciated if you chuck one in my order and I'll Paypal you the Difference......

The PUP Template arrived today but I (my wife) missed the Post Office, so I will have to wait till Monday there.