First build LP-1SS

I have always been partial to Fender and Jackson Guitars as my first was a 72 Stratocaster ( which I regretably destroyed on stage 25 years ago ). I keep buying lower end (Mexican/Indonesian) Fenders which were customer returns or demo guitars and putting 20 hours and $100's to customize and set them up properly. I always wanted a Les Paul so my wife decided to buy me a kit so I can do it myself. I am pretty proficient with the electronics and general setup but what I will be asking alot of questions about is the finish and clear coats.

Anxiously awaiting my Kit to arrive.

Hi and welcome to the forum. Hope your build goes well. Any plans on what sort of finish and clear-coat materials you'll be using yet?

I have been looking and I think TransTint Honey Amber and Dark Vintage Maple in a burst. I chose this because I dont want to use water as the base because it may lift off the veneer and raise the grain. Not really sure what to seal it with or what kind of gloss cote to use but hope to get some info before I get to this point.

Will this kit need to be pre-sanded before the stain is what I whant to know and prepare for.

Generally no need to sand the veneer before staining, it's best to apply any stain, let it dry and then sand back. Note that a lot of the grit references used on this forum are the European P range of grits - which are the same as the US grit standards up to 220 grit, but above that then the US grits are finer for a given grit size. Here's one comparison table https://www.fine-tools.com/G10019.html. Some of the finishes take better if the surface isn't too smooth.

You'll first need to check for glue lines or spots - typically at the veneer join down the middle and round the edges by the binding. Whilst paint doesn't have much of an issue with these, a lot of stains won't penetrate the wood well enough with a film of glue on top.

There's a product called GoofOff which is recommended for removing glue lines and spots - use sparingly multiple times rather than a big soak - as you might just soak through to the glue holding the veneer on. Not sure if it's available in the US, but google the product and you should be able to source a similar product.

If you've got obvious grain holes - especially noticeable round the edges, then you probably want to grain-fill first with a filler that will take a stain - either afterwards or stain the grain-filler as part of the staining process. You'll need to sand back after filling, so be careful and don't use too coarse a grit.

Thanks Simon. I'm sure I will be bugging you for info on the finishing. I was checking out your build threads and was wondering if the burst on that hollow body was sprayed on after a laquer coat? Also what would you recomend for clear finishing coats. It looks like you are using a spray rig but are there any you could recomend that comes from a can?

Thanks

Initially after grain filling I sprayed the top and back with a sanding sealer, rubbed this down and applied the yellow stain. I then sprayed some tinted amber lacquer coats, (for a slightly darker look),then some clear coats over that, then did the red and brown sunbursting. If the stain had been slightly darker to start with, then I could have simply done a clear lacquer coat. The sides were just tobacco lacquer over the sanding sealer.

I was generally following the method described in the StewMac (Stewart MacDonald) book 'Guitar Finishing Step-By-Step' for an old Gibson sunburst. But most parts of the book can be found on the StewMac website. It's often just handier to have it in book form so you can have it by your side for reference without risking getting paint all over your iPad. http://www.stewmac.com/

In hindsight, a darker initial stain would probably have been a better way to do it, as I ended up taking too much time (especially with the refinish) before trying to scrape the lacquer off the binding. As a result it had dried on very hard, which then takes ages to remove. As long as the finish has a day to dry so that it can be handled without leaving marks, then that's the time to scrape the bindings as it will be a lot easier.

My first spray job was refinish of an old Harmony H59, and I used spray cans for that. I found a couple of places selling nitrocellulose spray cans in the classic colours for guitar finishing in the UK, so I'm sure you'll find plenty in the USA. StewMac do a small range of 13oz aerosol cans in some of the classic colours, but Googling should find plenty of other suppliers e.g. "Daphne blue aerosol guitar lacquer" should give you lots of hits. I expect most will be internet/mail-order.

Spray cans can work very well, though I did find that some contents were just right, whilst some were a bit thinner and tended to run more easily, whilst others were thicker and occasionally tended to splutter - leaving larger blobs of paint than normal on the surface - not what you want when doing a sunburst edge. But for solid colour finishes, they are fine and with a bit of patience they can produce good results for sunbursts as well.

Temperature and humidity is important for spraying. A bit too cold and the lacquer will run more easily, colder still (or in high humidity) and the finish will haze over due to trapped moisture. Too hot, and the lacquer can dry out too much in the air before hitting the wood, leaving a powdery finish. 72°F to 79°F (22°C-25°C) is a good spraying temperature range, and 55% r.h. or below. Avoid spraying below 57°F/14°C.

If it is a bit colder than optimal in the spray area, then keep the paint and guitar parts in the warm until it's time to spray. You can even warm spray cans in warm (not too hot) water beforehand, which helps keep the paint thin.

Always wear a mask that's suitable for paint spraying (normally consists of a HEPA filter and carbon filter) as you don't want to get the paint in your lungs, and the solvents in nitro are harmful to breathe, so you do need a well ventilated area - or else an area you can close up to spray in, let the lacquer touch dry so dust doesn't blow onto it, and then open up a door to let the fumes escape.

It's a very good idea to wear thin rubber or disposable gloves when spraying, as the solvents can enter your body through the skin, and you may need to hold parts whilst spraying.

Instead of nitro, you can use standard car spray paints, which are almost all acrylic-based these days. Less harmful solvents - but still wear a mask. Acrylic paints take longer to cure than nitro, so leave longer between coats otherwise it's easy to get an unset layer of paint trapped under another layer. Makes it hard to get a good finish.

And the longer you can leave the finish drying after the final clear coat goes on, the better your final shine will be. One week is the bare minimum in optimum temperatures and humidities, two weeks should be OK, but three weeks is even better.

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Finally received my kit and Guitar Finishing Step by Step. Wow what a lot of information, almost too much. Simon, do you have a grain filler that you would recomend for staining? I am assuming that I will only do the low spots in the grain and not the entire guitar. Just so I am clear the sequence is 1 - Filler 2 - Sanding and Sealer 3 - Stain 4 - Laquer. I know it's a dumb question but I want to make sure I understand the basic process so I don't F up this beautifull Spaulted Maple veneer.

Thanks

Nice looking splat Garz!
Personally, I wouldn't recommend grain filling on spalted tops. All I did with my spalted LP was a light sand, then straight into the clear Dingotone stain.
Keep in mind too, the veneer is super thin, and any excessive sanding could go straight through it. Plus you run the risk of hiding some of the spalt under the grain filler.
Just something to consider.

Wow great looking kit, this should turn out well

Spalt-tastic! Some more spalty goodness in the making it should turn out great

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yeah Z , I saw yours with the dingostain. Nice!! I'm determined to do a stain/lacquer job on this one and it has some pretty deep grain on the veneer, which I know is pretty thin ( .5mm )

As Zandit says, you don't need to grain fill the top. Maple has a closed pore grain structure (unlike something like mahogany) so doesn't need filling to stop it soaking up the finish in an uneven manner. But sometimes the thin veneer splinters slightly at the edges - mainly on the end grain. So look at the top where it meets the binding around the heel and neck and you may notice areas that aren't smooth. If not, great. But if there are a few small rough areas in the veneer, then I'd just grain fill these areas. It's a lot less work for a start!

But the mahogany body and neck will need to be grain filled. You have the option of using a neutral filler and then staining, or you can use a coloured grain filler (or neutral with some stain added) to combine this operation. Gibson have used a number of different tints over the years, from cherry red to a dark brown, but you may want to go with something completely different.

Try and find a water-based grain filler. A lot are naptha or mineral oil based which don't take stains well (most act like a varnish and seal the surface). Stewart Macdonald, the best known US luthier supplier ( http://www.stewmac.com/?gclid=CjwKEA...sxXBoCGKfw_wcB ) sell a water-based grain filler, or you can try and find a product called Timbermate - which is Australian and used by most folks here, but I know it's available in the UK.

As you are staining, you won't want to use a sanding sealer first. Grain fill the top (if necessary) and sand smooth - a maximum of 240 grit, and maybe a quick drag over with 320 grit. The mahogany body and neck will need to be grain filled and stained. It's recommended that you do the grain filling exercise twice on the body and neck (but not the top unless it really needs it) to get it really smooth.

Make sure you let everything dry for a couple of days after staining. You don't want to trap moisture under your clear coats.

Note that if you plan to paint the headstock face black or another solid colour rather than stain it, then just grain fill it, then maybe a couple of clear coats to seal it which are then rubbed flat and then spray the headstock the solid colour.

Then you can start on your clear coats.

Thanks Simon,

You need to change your name to St. Simon Barden for passing on your knowledge from the ether to the uninitiated.

I did get a grain fill and did some of the deep gouges on the top and sanded with 320 ( i'm afraid to sand through ) which is a little light but I'm going to try to do a Pheonix type stain job. ( ColorTone filler/stain from Stewmac ) Light brown, cherry red, orange and yellow in the design of a Phonix and sand it down just to see so i hope the light filler will give it a nice effect. i don't care if i screw it up cause this one is for me and as long as it puts together well ( little nervous about the glue on neck ) and plays well I am cool with it.

Thanks for the 411 on the body ( 411 is slang for info across The Pond ) I was actually about to stain it with a light brown / cherry mix in denatured alcohol but logged on to check the blog. Going to brush on a couple of coats of grain filler and sand,,,,and sand.... and sand.

Anyway man, thanks for all your knowledge. I don't care what the other Luthiers say.

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So....also a graphic artist of sorts I want to do a Phoenix type stain to the body.... Should I go with a traditional Les Paul headstock or something different?

Hey Garz, all depends what headstock shape you want. If you can post a pic of the rough shape what the graphics look like we might be able to recommend a headstock shape.

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who wants a Pint?


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i drew in with a pencil....probably going for a gibson or epiphone though

looks good so far Garz. What type of beer you drinking ?

Any good IPA or Stout, Double Bock even....

Pint of stout please

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A man with taste. I'll have an IPA.

Help yourselves. There is actually a really good micro brew revolution here in The States. Lagunitas Brewing Company

Something for everyone :cool:

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If beer is not the answer...you're asking the wrong dang questions.

beers look awesome Garz, I checked out the Lagunitas Brewery website and they have a nice range. They are half owned by Heinekin !

US have come along with craft beer since the days of Bud and Millers !

This is Big Dog's Brewery right around the corner from my house in Las Vegas.....good stuff.


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nice one Garz, we might have to start a separate craft beer thread in the Naughty Warehouse section so we don't clog up build diaries with beer talk !

Dayum! you makin me thirstay!

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Originally Posted by Andy40

Dayum! you makin me thirstay!

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Same here....!

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Originally Posted by Garz666

Help yourselves. There is actually a really good micro brew revolution here in The States. Lagunitas Brewing Company

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I know about the micro-brewery revolution in The States. I have a friend in Utah who's keen on them (but not the very hoppy IPAs) and I know he likes Double Bocks. We do get some US IPAs over here now in bottles. They've all been very nice.

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Settled on a headstock design, pretty standard.

Cool. Very close, but not an exact copy.