Some more "Guitar Rubbish"

Hey Guys, I seem to have lost my motivation to build, AGAIN, so to keep the Black Dog at bay I resorted to my other coping strategy of faffing about in the "bedroom" recording studio. Reaper is my DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) of choice. Well probably not by choice, but it is cheap and does everything I could ever want from recording software. I have become quite attached to it and even if I could afford a different DAW I doubt I will ever change now.

Anyhoo, in the past I have recorded through my Boss ME 70 pedal, but this time I thought I would give simulated amp sims a go. So I have added a couple of tracks where all the guitars and the bass were recorded direct DI into the computer using a Focusrite 2i2 audio interface. A recording technique known as "In-the-Box".

Other than the guitar and the Focusrite no other outboard hardware was used. No mics, no amps, no pedals or racks etc.

Apart form the drums all the plug-ins (instruments and fx) are of the "freebie" variety, but I have succumbed to the lure of the RockRack siren, so my next track will be with (horror of horrors) a paid plug-in!!

As usual with home recordings, I have listen to them a zillion times during the recording, mixing and mastering process and have finally given up and put them to bed knowing that I could have done a better job, if only I ............... (add any number of excuses here) lol.

Anyway you can listen them here. I hope the link works.
https://soundcloud.com/user473075613

rob

Robin need to change the thread title. Quite enjoyed the first coffee of the day on the back patio listening to your work.

hey Robin , that was really cool, I loved the way you blended the old sound into the mre modern one and back again.
tommy emmanuel does something similar at the start of Tailin' the Invisible Man... very cool, nice job

had a listen to the rest - love song 5.
what is your process? - which layers go down in what order?
nice

Definitely not guitar rubbish, had a listen over a cup of tea. Sounds great and enjoyed immensely

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Great Song Robin...I had wondered where you got to? wondered how that semi acoustic was going

I always enjoy your work Robin, I look forward to the day i do stuff like that.

Nice work Robin, as a matter of interest I was wondering what you are using for the drums.

I working on our originals both as backing tracks & recordings and am looking for drums to use in Reaper particularly a plugin that can be triggered by a bass track.

Thanks Tony, Stan, Andrew, Andy and Dedman, whether I think it deserves it or not its always nice to get positive feedback.

@Andy
Basically I haven't touched the latest build for about 2 months. I guess I have been a bit apprehensive about whether it will work at all and didn't want to feel like it was a waste of time. But I am starting to get that itch again, and thinking that even if it doesn't work I have learned a lot that I can take away from this build so I figure that I will get started on it again sometime soon. The sooner it is finished the sooner I will know, and then I can start research for the next project.

@Dedman
I should hope you would set your sights higher than that mate. ;P

Cheers Guys, much appreciated.
rob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stan

what is your process? - which layers go down in what order?

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Hey Stan

"What's my recording process"?

This is likely to be a long post, so if anybody is not interested in my recording workflow, turn away NOW!

Keep in mind that I am a rank novice at this stuff, but this is just the way I do it.

I guess for me it’s a bit like jamming with real people, you start off with an idea, and then it magically gets a life of its own and then you have no idea where it’s going. I am not a song writer and I have never had an idea in my head of how the song should go, it always evolves over time. Actually two of those songs have exactly the same chord progression but they went in 2 different directions, hopefully they sound different enough to fool some people.

My usual workflow:

1. First off I usually start with a nice chord progression either played on keyboard or the guitar. Nearly all my stuff is just a repeating 3 or 4 chord vamp. Very rarely in the standard AABAB type song structure, with verses and choruses etc. The hard part is to make it sound interesting over 3 odd minutes.

2. Next to go down would be a basic drum pattern. I don't worry about fills or alternating patterns etc. Just a basic pattern that fits in with the feel and the rhythm of the chord progression.

3. Then a basic bass line to help pin down the drums and lay down a good bedding track.
Because I don’t own a mic everything other than the guitars and bass will be MIDI. This makes editing simple but time consuming.

4. If the original vamp was on guitar I then will decide between piano, organ or synth. Again just something basic that fits the mood of the song. Obviously if the original idea came from a keyboard now would come the rhythm guitars. I say guitars plural because I always double track rhythm guitars hard left and hard right. I will use different EQ and amp settings for each but keep them both similar in texture, but different. If you just copy and paste the first track it just lacks something and sounds very bland and sterile.

5. Once that is done I would usually have about 8 bars recorded and I will put Reaper into loop mode and start noodling around with the guitar. If I am lucky (very lucky) "something" will sound OK and that will then give me an idea of where it is going.

6. I will then copy and paste the bedding track as many times as needed and keep putting down guitar leads over it until I am fairly happy.

By then I have the bare bones of the song sorted, and then the time consuming part takes over….Editing.

7. With the song structure roughly in place I will go back to the drums and add additional hits and ghost notes (one note at a time) to the snare, kick, cymbals, hats, toms and then some fills to highlight the different parts of the song.

8. Then go back to the bass. As the song has probably changed direction since the initial bass was laid down I will probably re-record the bass to fit the new song. As a bassist I pride myself on my timing, but I will still have to go back and edit notes so that they fit perfectly with the kick and snare. It’s a much glossed over part of getting the backing to sound tight.

When I'm happy with the bass I copy and paste that track to a second channel, the first I will leave just as a DI with some light EQ and Compression if necessary, and the second track I will amp it with an Amp Sim and apply more aggressive EQ and Compression. The bass tracks are never panned left or right but just left in the middle.

I will also set up another channel that I feed the Drums and Bass into and do some parallel compression with heaps of compression and feed it back into the mix. This is commonly called "New York Compression". Google "New York Compression" for a better description.

9. Re-visit the Rhythm section if need be.

10. Repeat steps 7 to 9 ad nauseum until you are utterly sick of hearing this damn monotonous rubbish (now you know where the Thread Title comes from lol.) If you let it, this process will never end. At some stage you have to tell yourself "that's as good as I can get it" and then move on.

That’s the recording part done. Next will come Mixing and then Mastering. But that as they say in the classics, that is another story.

I know I rambled a bit but I hope that some of that made sense, if not just let me know.

Cheers
rob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave.king1

Nice work Robin, as a matter of interest I was wondering what you are using for the drums.

I working on our originals both as backing tracks & recordings and am looking for drums to use in Reaper particularly a plugin that can be triggered by a bass track.

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Hey Dave,

I use EZ Drummer. I had a ripped copy, but it is such a great Plug-in and my conscience got the better of me so I ended up buying a copy. Before that I was using MT Power Drums which was OK in a mix and also Sennheiser's Drum Mica. Both of them freebies.

Drum Mica is a very nice all acoustic sounding kit with the choice of a several different Sennheiser mics. It has 13,000 samples and about 1,500 drum patters. But both EZdrummer and Drum Mica are fairly large Plugins and my old computer was struggling to handle both so I have opted to stay with EZD. For the challenged like me, EZD was the best choice for song writing.

You got me beat with triggering drums with the bass, way past my pay scale I'm afraid.

Cheers mate
rob

Interesting and not unlike how I write stories, particularly the not knowing where it's going bit and the never ending edits LOL

that was a really interesting description of your process, thanks for the insight Rob

Thanks for the reply Robin, I have the MT drums & both drum mica packages and the PC has the grunt to handle them but I haven't worked out how to trigger them yet.

There is a scripting too for Reaper that allows you to trigger a midi from an audio file and then add one drum / cymbal at a time using a midi drum plugin, I have been playing with this and it's pretty intuitive but a long process.

The reason I am particularly interested in being able to do this is because one of our originals is in a straight 4 at 148bpm but because it has a rolling shanty feel the accents move from bar to bar so a bit like 12/8 but it's not.

As a consequence programming the midi drums beat by beat is a painful process that takes forever.

I was advised of the script in the Reaper forum where I asked " is it possible to trigger midi drums from an audio file " you will find I have a post with a similar title in the Recording In Progress sub forum where I describe how to use the script.

User name on both of these forums is suthol my usual forum name.

Loved the tone of the P90's on song 3 and also liked the traditional Tele on song 1. Top effort all 6 and easy to listen to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dedman

Interesting and not unlike how I write stories, particularly the not knowing where it's going bit and the never ending edits LOL

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Yeah Dedman, I guess that's why writing and music are "art" and not science. There is no right or wrong way, just the way that works for you.

@Stan,
No probs mate, hope it made sense.

@Dave,
Still has me scratching my head Dave, I will have to check out your Thread on the Reaper forums. Like most software programs, I am barely capable of scratching the surface.

@Wazza
Thanks mate.

I'll let you in on a little secret. Before I started making guitars I was a Gibson man through and through, and the one thing I knew for sure was that I would never want to build a Tele and I had never even heard of a P90. Now 3 years later, Tele's are my favourite guitar and I just fell instantly in love with P90's the first time I started playing them. Geez, I must be getting old. lol.

Gday Robin,

Wander downstairs to the Home Recording forum here for a bit more, it really is a work in progress though

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robin

...keep the Black Dog at bay...

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That black dog's a bitch!