Advice on this old thing

Looking for some advice or assitance with this guitar, primarily, the neck.

The story:

I bought this beastie from a colleague about 25, 26 years ago. He'd bought it new in the '60s and played it in a band. He brought it to work to show me as we'd been having conversations about guitars, and I was playing in a band with three other guys who also worked at the same place. After seeing it I offered him 50 bucks for it. He countered with 100. We haggled and settled on something in the middle.. 80 rings a bell.

So after I got it home, I played around with it to set it up and was planning on using it in the band as a second, for some of the old shite we used to do. Unfortunately, even after playing around with the intonation, action and so on, it was (and remains) a prick of a thing to play due to the horrible action (about 8.6 mm at the 12th, to over 11 at the 23rd).

It bears no markings as to what brand it is. The bloke I bought it from had no recollection of who made it (it had been sitting, forgotten, in his cupboard for nearly 25 years at that stage). For a 50-year-old instrument, it's in remarkably good shape, probably due to the fact that it's unplayable for more than a few minutes at a time. If you're only pedalling it's ok, but don't try anything fancy. There's little to no rust anywhere, even most of the screws (all original) are pretty good.

So here's what I'm thinking:

I would like to put a new neck on it and see if I can actually make it playable. It seems a shame to waste a nice-looking instrument, that actually sounds quite good, just like you'd expect a 50-y-o hollow-body bass with single coil pickups to sound. If I could put a decent neck on, it might make it easier to play. But, that's not going to be so easy.

Even though it looks longer, it's only 30-inch scale. Currently the distance from the zero fret to the bridge is 775 mm, or 30.5 inches. I think I moved the bridge back to try lower the action; as you can see, the bridge height is adjusted all the way down. The intonation, as you'd expect, is not quite right.

So, googling for short scale necks brings up a few, but they're all too wide at the heel. The neck of the guitar is 55.5 mm wide at the heel, 42.3 at the nut (P-bass standard). Most necks I've found are around 60 wide at the heel.

By comparison, my '72 Musicmaster Bass, which is a short scale, is 57mm at the heel and just over 40 at the nut. My '98 Jazz Deluxe is 38 at the nut and 58 or so at the heel.

So if I could find a MM Bass neck I could probably sand it a bit to fit this body. But no-one seems to make replacements for them. The other thing I could try is to shim the neck with a wedge, so that it angles backwards and is lifted a few mm. I'm pretty sure I tried back when I got it to adjust the truss rod to try bend the neck back a bit, but it doesn't appear to be warped. The actual contact patch of the heel to the body is quite small too, and it's possible that the body has been warped over time from sitting in the case with the strings tightened (although, it was like this when I got it).

Perhaps it's just a crappy Chinese guitar.

So, looking for suggestions or advice. Does anyone know of a short-scale neck manufacturer that would fit it, or should I just not bother and relegate it to the cupboard for another 25 years?
I'm willing to spend a little on it if I can make it playable, turning it into a "Franken-bass". Don't really want to modify it so that it can't be put back to the way it is now. But then again, it's probably not worth more than a handful of bottle caps at the moment.

Cheers,

Pete
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Some more photos:

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before replacing the neck I'd try putting a shim under the back of the neck to change the break angle

Bloody hell that was quick. :-)

Yes, probably the easiest thing too. But then again, making the shim.... do you reckon plywood? Some other material?

pop down to your local big green shed and see if that have any wooden axe wedges or hammer wedges, you can sand/file to suit. I used layers of old pick guard super glued together till I got the right thickness on my Bo-Diddly box

I use photocopy paper soaked with thin CA glue.
Simply cut the paper so it covers the width of the pocket and make each shim around 5mm shorter than the last one and you will end up with a workable wedge.

I am thinking it is probably a Japanese built axe, possibly a Tiesco or Gyatone?

Hey Pete cool looking bass. Looks like your questions have been answered, good luck !

I defer to DB with regard to materials, but I have heard of people doing the same thing with playing cards.

That neck is a beauty, so it would be a shame to replace it if you like the short scale and if it is otherwise straight. I remember those old Japanese basses. Pretty, but the action may always have been horrible.


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If you go on eBay and use search terms "bass" and "coronado" you'll find a couple of Fender Coronado necks for around $200 US, that are 30" scale. Not sure what the heel width is, but probably standard Fender.

It also occurs to me that if you put a 34 inch scale neck on the bass, you would need to move the bridge back about 2 inches. Because of the curve in the arch top that would also lower the action...

In any case, for 80 beans you have found the garage Holy Grail.

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Looks like it will need a lot of packing under the heel to reduce height of the action. In most of those shots it is hard to tell but the neck looks fairly flat without too much forward bow?

Have you considered a different bridge with saddles lower to the base?

You could also sand about 1mm off the bottom and another 1mm of the timber bridge support.
Combined with 1-2mm of heel shim you will get that action down.
Then you may need to deepen the nut slots slightly to get a better first fret to string height.

Just go slow, check often and she will be sweet.

I think your bass is a Teisco Kingston, surprised Pabs didn't beat me to this...

i think the reason you are having issues are because it might not be the original neck.

they look more like a strat neck/headstock

Could be an Aria as well.. hard to pin down as so many mid 70's Japanese axes were similar.
The mother of toilet seat headstock veneer points towards Aria..

As Stan sed, where is Pabs when we need him? :D

Hello! :D

DB pretty much nailed it. Could be an Aria, Teisco, Guyatone, Univox, Silvertone, Kay, Kent, Harmony, Valco, Supro, etc. All of these brands (and more) were made in the 60s and 70s in Japan, some shared models and were sold in different countries under different names with slightly different features.

Stan is probably pretty close, here is the only pic I could find of a Kingston.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...3e441b4865.jpg

Hey fellas, thanks for all the tips and comments, much appreciated. Apologies for not acknowledging them or replying sooner, been a busy few weeks with work and only today got some spare time to work on my guitars.

So, referring to the photos below, today I pulled the neck off. Surprise surprise, someone had a similar idea, as the two paddlepop sticks will attest. Even though it's been 25 years, pretty sure I've never had the neck off. So someone was not happy with the action at some point in time.

Also, that big hole in the middle of the neck mount screws, dunno WTF that is for. Can't even think why it would be there, obviously not original with the way the paint is chipped around it, and not centred.

As for the neck itself, I think it's definitely original, as the "mother of toilet seat" (onya DB!) veneer on the headstock is identical to the pickguard material, so would have to think it's the original neck.

Waz, it's definitely flat - after taking it off the body I put a steel rule along the frets, all touch at the same point, no gaps.

BUT, and a big but, as you can see from the third photo, the frets are horribly finished - running your hand up and down the neck is not a very nice experience. They have jagged edges and varying lengths. All in all not a very nice neck.

fender3x, tried searching for Coronado bass necks, found one that would cost in excess of $300 AUD to get here, so probably too much, although it would be nice. I did find one from a site called Rondo Music that is 30 inch scale and 2 and 1/4 inches wide at the heel, which I can probably make fit with a bit of sanding. It is about $150 AUD to get it here. So a little cheaper.

As for the bridge, yes it would be better if it was lower. I pulled the two adjusters off and it sits about 1mm lower, so combined with a wedge in the heel socket the action might come down a bit. Will be a lot of frigging around I should think. I googled for floating bass bridges, the only one I could find was a Hohner style, which looks to be taller than the original piece, and the saddles aren't adjustable. No measurements on the string width either. The original part's centre-to-centre of each saddle is 17mm, give or take 0.1mm or so. I guess I can always sand a bit off the bottom too.

So, now need to make a decision as to whether it's worth spending the money on. I will try make a wedge for it and see if I can get the action down.... if I can get it to a reasonable height it might then be worth buying the neck.

Cheers,

Pete

P.S. Pablo - thanks for the photo, yes, very close to mine with some slight differences.

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it may not be worth it in dollar terms, but in terms of learning and resurrecting a cool old guitar i say go for it and bring it back to life

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Originally Posted by stan

it may not be worth it in dollar terms, but in terms of learning and resurrecting a cool old guitar i say go for it and bring it back to life

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Stan, yes I totally agree. A couple of hundred bucks may be over capitalising as they say, but better than having it sit in its case for another 25 years growing mildew (yes, yuck).

And if it's playable, then all the better for it.

Cheers

The hole would have been where it was hung for painting at a guess.

Personally, I would just clean up the fret ends. It is normal for them to stick out a bit on an old beast like this as the timber would have shrunk a bit.

With the paddle pop sticks, I would ditch them and make a proper wedge shim to get a better break angle on the neck.
That will sort out the action height dramas

Plywood body and maybe a bit of thin plywood cut to the size of the neck pocket as a shim would be the first thing to do and then drop the neck in over the top and re-check action height to see where things are at and which end needs how much sanded off to bring it somewhere near a decent level/angle to play.

The fresh plywood should be easy enough to sand into shape rather than trying to use a solid piece of timber such as maple or pine and would be harder/stronger/tougher than just pine on it's own.

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Originally Posted by filthyPierre

Hey fellas, thanks for all the tips and comments, much appreciated. Apologies for not acknowledging them or replying sooner, been a busy few weeks with work and only today got some spare time to work on my guitars.

So, referring to the photos below, today I pulled the neck off. Surprise surprise, someone had a similar idea, as the two paddlepop sticks will attest. Even though it's been 25 years, pretty sure I've never had the neck off. So someone was not happy with the action at some point in time.

Also, that big hole in the middle of the neck mount screws, dunno WTF that is for. Can't even think why it would be there, obviously not original with the way the paint is chipped around it, and not centred.

As for the neck itself, I think it's definitely original, as the "mother of toilet seat" (onya DB!) veneer on the headstock is identical to the pickguard material, so would have to think it's the original neck.

Waz, it's definitely flat - after taking it off the body I put a steel rule along the frets, all touch at the same point, no gaps.

BUT, and a big but, as you can see from the third photo, the frets are horribly finished - running your hand up and down the neck is not a very nice experience. They have jagged edges and varying lengths. All in all not a very nice neck.

fender3x, tried searching for Coronado bass necks, found one that would cost in excess of $300 AUD to get here, so probably too much, although it would be nice. I did find one from a site called Rondo Music that is 30 inch scale and 2 and 1/4 inches wide at the heel, which I can probably make fit with a bit of sanding. It is about $150 AUD to get it here. So a little cheaper.

As for the bridge, yes it would be better if it was lower. I pulled the two adjusters off and it sits about 1mm lower, so combined with a wedge in the heel socket the action might come down a bit. Will be a lot of frigging around I should think. I googled for floating bass bridges, the only one I could find was a Hohner style, which looks to be taller than the original piece, and the saddles aren't adjustable. No measurements on the string width either. The original part's centre-to-centre of each saddle is 17mm, give or take 0.1mm or so. I guess I can always sand a bit off the bottom too.

So, now need to make a decision as to whether it's worth spending the money on. I will try make a wedge for it and see if I can get the action down.... if I can get it to a reasonable height it might then be worth buying the neck.

Cheers,

Pete

P.S. Pablo - thanks for the photo, yes, very close to mine with some slight differences.

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I'm thinking that the hole in the middle could very well have been there to accommodate an Allen-key screw that adjusts the tilt-back angle of the neck, like the one found on some CBS era Fender Stratocaster guitars, which may account for the action being very high, my theory anyway.