Fretless conversion?

I've all but decided that I want to try building a fretless bass. I want to use the JBA-4 and do the conversion myself. I've never done anything like this before (haven't even finished building my first fretted kit), so I thought I'd ask some questions.

So...

I'll need something to pull the frets with. I guess I can probably get a fret puller on ebay. What about just using side cutters? I've read and seen both "you need to heat the frets" and "you don't need to heat the frets". How would I tell which of these things I need to do?

Filling the fret holes (cavities? lines?). Looks like using veneer is the generally accepted way to do it. I've also seen people using epoxy (don't really want to) and superglue + sawdust (sounds interesting, but I can't find any tutorials online that show me the baby steps I'd need). Why wouldn't you just use a wood filler? I'm sure there's a reason, but I don't know what it is.

Let's assume I'll go with veneer. Anyone know of a place in Melbourne where I could buy appropriate (maybe maple) veneer in person? Alternatively, what thickness would I need if I was ordering online? I'll obviously need a radius sanding block. Can anyone tell me which size I'd need for the JBA4? Is there an Aussie supplier (I prefer to buy from a local if I can) or do I order one from stewmac? Realparts doesn't seem to have one.

Finishing! I have no idea, apart from that I don't really want to mess around with epoxy if I can help it. Again, I've seen "use superglue", but how? What other alternative finishes are there? If it's sanded flat, can it just be waxed or oiled like a regular fretboard, or is there something special about the fretlessness that means it needs a different kind of finish?

I'd also need to file down the nut, right? I'll probably order a bone one for this build. Just sand the bottom of it until it's the right height? Or is there a bone-specific method?

Sorry for all the questions, my lack of experience in wood work in general is probably leading to me using the wrong search terms so I'm having trouble finding all this info for myself.

Uppercase, I've just pretty much done the same with my JBA-4 kit.

http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...ead.php?t=3985

Not sure if you have purchased the kit but from memory there is now a fret-less 5 string version in the PBG shop, could save some time?

To remove the frets I used an old fashioned butter knife. I just slipped under the end side of the fret, lifted and pulled out by hand.

To fill the frets I used superglue and maple saw dust. It worked but was a real pain to do especially along the edges. I recommend veneer (you should find something on YouTube on this...). Others in this forum have mentioned cable ties, plastic plant pot labels so other alternatives worth exploring

Finishing the fretboard - I believe a good finish is required else the strings (especially roundwound) will make a mess of it with no frets to push against. I use flatwounds over a superglue fretboard and no damage to date. I used superglue on my fretboard but would use epoxy in future (as forum member Wazkelly also recently mentioned in his fretless bass conversion). Superglue was a bit of a pain to get right due to clouding issues but with persistence came up well.

For the nut I lowered by sanding from the bottom (its a flat-bottomed style nut and not radiused on the underside like a Flunder JB). The nut on mine is very low.

Hope that helps!

Thanks Andrew!

Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and use epoxy then! Definitely going with veneer if I can find somewhere to buy it. The process looks... not exactly difficult, but time consuming. I want something to work on, so I'd like to do it myself and learn some more skills rather than just buying a fretless neck.

I was planning on taking the flatwound strings off my p-bass (to restring with rounds) and using them on the fretless build. I love the flatwound sound, but I'd also like some brighter sounds, so... two basses! (Three ba... FOU... eh, just keep stacking 'em up until the mrs complains...)

Andrew, I've been reading your thread and see that you're using a 12" radius block. Is that the standard for a J-bass or are you using it specifically for the fretless conversion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UpperCaseH

Thanks Andrew!
I love the flatwound sound, but I'd also like some brighter sounds, so... two basses! (Three ba... FOU... eh, just keep stacking 'em up until the mrs complains...)

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If you wait until the spoken complaint, then you've missed the subtle body language and raised eyebrow looks that are the unspoken complaint. it should all be "Fine" though because she "really doesn't mind" and you can do "Whatever" you feel like. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andrewdosborne

Uppercase, I've just pretty much done the same with my JBA-4 kit.

http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...ead.php?t=3985

Not sure if you have purchased the kit but from memory there is now a fret-less 5 string version in the PBG shop, could save some time?

To remove the frets I used an old fashioned butter knife. I just slipped under the end side of the fret, lifted and pulled out by hand.

To fill the frets I used superglue and maple saw dust. It worked but was a real pain to do especially along the edges. I recommend veneer (you should find something on YouTube on this...). Others in this forum have mentioned cable ties, plastic plant pot labels so other alternatives worth exploring

Finishing the fretboard - I believe a good finish is required else the strings (especially roundwound) will make a mess of it with no frets to push against. I use flatwounds over a superglue fretboard and no damage to date. I used superglue on my fretboard but would use epoxy in future (as forum member Wazkelly also recently mentioned in his fretless bass conversion). Superglue was a bit of a pain to get right due to clouding issues but with persistence came up well.

For the nut I lowered by sanding from the bottom (its a flat-bottomed style nut and not radiused on the underside like a Flunder JB). The nut on mine is very low.

Hope that helps!

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Echoing Andrew's experience, i removed the first and 22nd frets on my explorer to drill guide pin holes when I stripped the fretboard to perform some minor(major) neck tenon surgery (Butchered Hack job) using a thin bladed flat probe. its doable, its nerve wracking but with care and an easy does it touch you should be okay.

Or you can outlay for the fret board protectors and fret stripping pliers from StewMac and save your nerves. It may also provide you with a much cleaner result for the refilling of the slots with your chosen medium. would probably save you a butt load of time in the actual defretting operation as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UpperCaseH

Andrew, I've been reading your thread and see that you're using a 12" radius block. Is that the standard for a J-bass or are you using it specifically for the fretless conversion?

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I think the kit is, anyhow I personally prefer 12" radius so if it wasn't originally it is now!

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankenWashie

Echoing Andrew's experience, i removed the first and 22nd frets on my explorer to drill guide pin holes when I stripped the fretboard to perform some minor(major) neck tenon surgery (Butchered Hack job) using a thin bladed flat probe. its doable, its nerve wracking but with care and an easy does it touch you should be okay.

Or you can outlay for the fret board protectors and fret stripping pliers from StewMac and save your nerves. It may also provide you with a much cleaner result for the refilling of the slots with your chosen medium. would probably save you a butt load of time in the actual defretting operation as well.

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Ah yes forgot the nerve wrecking experience of removing the frets. There is potential for lots of damage. That has since been long forgotten in the reggae bass groves I'm now lost in :)

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by andrewdosborne

That has since been long forgotten in the reggae bass groves I'm now lost in :)

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

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MMM an easy reggae afternoon would be good about now.

Hey H, pretty well all the PBG kits have a 12" radius fingerboard so you are pretty safe the JBA kit is. I just checked my buddys JBA neck and it is 12" radius fingerboard, he has converted his to fretless too and it is masked but pretty sure it's 12"

G'day H, comments from all of the guys before me have provided most of the answers however I will share a few obstacles worth pondering before jumping in the deep end.

Fret removal - as a fret profile is T shaped the bit that lies underneath fret board surface has jagged edges to help the frets bind to the board. I used around 1" chisel to gently prise an end then gently grabbed the raised bit with pliers and removed all 20 of the blighters. Should have paid more attention to the You Tube Vids as I reckon heating the frets with the soldering iron first would have reduced the amount of splintering that was encountered.

Fret Marker Filler - Originally had bought the plastic plant label strips and then tripped over DB's thread from a few years ago where he used CA glue over Timber Mate which is what I ended up doing too. You just need to sand the FB down once all the frets are out then mask up so that just the fret lines to be filled are showing. Don't forget to also mask up along the length of the neck on either side of the FB to keep the filler in place and not spew out. Needs to be left to dry for a few days and then sands off real easy.

FB Radius - you can spend lots of money on plenty of things and this was one that I skipped. Used a cork sanding block lightly and followed the very flattish contour that was already there. It may have come out a bit flatter which doesn't bother me.

Owned a Yammy BB1000 back early 1980's that someone had converted by using Maple strips placed into the ebony FB and it was untreated other than waxed. Was using Rotosound regular guage Round Wounds at the time and they did not damage the FB, maybe that was because Ebony is harder than Rosewood. Initially wanted to do a similar thing but finding strips of Maple seemed difficult and more expensive than method used. If you think upright Double Bass their FB's are all untreated, possibly waxed, but definitely no shiny coating.

Hope this helps in some way before you commence your fretless journey.

Thank you all for the advice!

Might try to fill the fret slots with timbermate, seems like the easiest option. Maybe I'll do something about the dots while I'm at it. I'll need to clean up the edges of the slots, right? Will just getting a fret saw be a good idea, or is something else the best way?

I guess I'll epoxy or CA the fretboard. I've used epoxy before, I just found it was quite messy, but the CA doesn't seem to be any less messy. I'm sure whatever I use will be fine once I get going (famous last words...)

Could I make my own radius block by taping sandpaper rough side up onto the fretboard and using that to shape a piece of softer wood? Is that a terrible idea for reasons I haven't thought of?

Hopefully I'll get this kit ordered this week.

G'day H, not so sure the Radius block is required as the FB's on most Basses are quite flat however if you think you need one go for it. Not sure about a fret saw as some of the splintering on mine was up to 2mm either side of where a fret had been removed. It seemed that the very top layer of the timber was brittle and I tried to save all the tiny slivers to put back in place under the CA glue but that did not happen. No biggy as the CA stuff acted like a clear gap filler. Best to go slow with an 'easy does it' approach, and reckon pre-heating the whole of fret you are about to remove with a soldering iron should help ease them out more gently. Also start at the 20th fret and work back towards the nut as if you stuff things up at that end it won't be too big a deal to fix as how many times do you reckon you will be up around 19th or 20th fret on a fretless?

If you masking tape up to the level of the FB that will hold the Timber mate in whilst it sets and cures, and when you remove the tape it is also best to sand on the shoulder edges of the FB to smooth things out. Once sanded I reapplied the masking tape along the neck up to the level of the horizontal plane of the FB.

A word of caution - CA glue is very watery and can easily run if too much has been applied or your work surface is not completely flat. Thankfully it comes off quite easily from finished surfaces such as on back of neck but if you are really concerned just tape up the whole neck to be on the safe side. Especially beware up the nut end as you don't want to fill the nut slot full of CA glue. I used slithers of masking tape to build up enough layers to protect things and you also need to tape off the headstock unless you want to do more sanding and finishing that too, as I found out the hard way. Again, no biggy as the micro mesh pads work miracles on already glossy surfaces.

Thanks you everyone for the advice.

I just ordered the kit. Guess we'll see if I can pull this off...

Wot Waz sed.
Pro tip: wind the truss rod so as to put a backbow into the neck. This will help to minimise chip out when you rip those pesky speed humps out :)
Then wind it back so the neck is flat and proceed with your choice of filler.

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Originally Posted by dingobass

Wot Waz sed.
Pro tip: wind the truss rod so as to put a backbow into the neck. This will help to minimise chip out when you rip those pesky speed humps out :)
Then wind it back so the neck is flat and proceed with your choice of filler.

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Now that is an awesome tip, and I presume that also applies to when you refret a 6 string...

Wish I had heard that tip before I started.

Oh for sure, we need a DB tips and tricks section

Cant tell ya all my tricks cause then ya would know more than me :D