ES-3 (My 2nd build)

While I'm waiting for the Tru Oil to dry on my Tele build, I figured I might as well have a closer look at the ES-3 (also a Sunday Night Special) I ordered and give it a quick sanding to see if any new issues came up.
I knew this kit was going to required some work, being a factory second, but Adam listed it for a great price and I knew I'd rather get the hang of building these kits on something that wasn't pristine - if I totally botched it, I wouldn't feel quite so bad.
So..... on with the show. One of the issues Adam listed was a discoloration on the back and front - he wasn't sure what caused it but was pretty sure it wasn't glue. I'm happy to say that I'm not really finding any glue residue that will need to be dealt with. I don't know what the discoloration was either, but the first round of sanding with 220 grit seems to be taking care of it. Here are some shots of the areas on back and front. In the shots of the back, I have sanded all but the bottom right portion so you can see the improvement. The front hasn't been touched yet.
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That's the good news. The bad news is I've got a bit more patching to do than I hoped. I knew about the one chip in the veneer on the top of the neck cavity but there's considerably more work to do below the neck cavity. As you can see in the pictures below, there seems to have been a few places where the wood was just a bit too short to match up at the critical point. Not sure just yet how I'll deal with those issues yet but the smaller chip on top I might just use some wood filler - it'd be pretty hard to get a tiny piece of veneer in there.
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more in the following post.

Is there any issue with scraping down the edge of the binding? Right now it got quite a sharp 90 degree edge to it. I'd like to just shave a smoother edge with a razor blade or exacto knife so it doesn't scrape your skin like it does now. Here's a photo that hopefully shows what I mean.
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The last thing I noticed is that the wood in the bottom of the neck cavity appears to have the fibres torn out - it almost looks like punky wood, but it isn't - the fibres are just torn. Will this cause any strength issues when I glue the neck in?
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Still lots of time before I get to working on this one full time, but it's nice to have another kit I can tackle while waiting for the finish on the previous one to dry (not impatient at all ;) ).

Hi Peter, interesting looking kit.

Haven't built one of these yet and therefore unable to assist with some of your questions however in relation to the binding you can take the sharp edge off with 0000 steel wool but would recommend doing such once you have done all coats of colour and clear top coat.

If aiming for a high gloss finish using Maguires Ultimate Compound Color & Clarity Restorer will help do the trick too, just requires a bit more elbow grease.

The discolouration looks like water staining from those shots and good to hear they came out without too much hassle. For the little bits of timber missing timber mate is probably the only way to go and if it looks obvious then maybe a solid black edged burst would help to disguise such.

Thanks Wazkelly,
Is this the stuff https://www.amazon.ca/Meguiars-G1721...imate+compound?
Good idea on doing a black burst on the edges to hide the touch ups. I'm going to check out the local hobby shop this week to see what thicknesses of model plywood they have. Might just cut out the whole section and replace it rather than trying to add bits here and there (on the lower part at least).
Timbermate is really expensive (I think so at least) at ~$30 for 250g. Does that sound reasonable? Are there other fillers that might be better priced in N. America?

Hi Peter, Amazon link is spot on.

Timbermate prices seem high over there as we can buy 250g for les than AUD $10 as per this link http://www.bunnings.com.au/search/pr...bermate%20250g

Oops, just committed a major crime posting that link and shall now await my sentencing in the Naughty Warehouse. Sorry DB.

Another day of waiting for TO to dry, so after 3 rounds of light sanding, I thought I'd try putting a coat of dark dye on the back with the intention of sanding it back to pop the grain a bit. I'm thinking of an aged shellac sort of colour.... maybe.
After I got it stained though... I kind of like the colour it's turning out without sanding it back. I got a bit more scientific with this batch of dye - 10cc of water plus 4 drops of Van Dyke Brown and 2 drops of Black analine dye. I put two coats on since the wood seemed rather thirsty. Might do a 3rd coat but I'll wait until these dry to see what the colour ends up like once it's completely dry. Might need to up the number of drops to get it a bit darker.
I did find one patch of glue on the back near the bottom. I've already sanded it several times and did the wire brush trick which has helped with the surrounding area, but it looks like there may have been a crack in the veneer that they filled with either glue or some non-staining wood filler. Not sure if I should try and dig it out or just leave it. If I go with a lighter shellac colour it won't show up as much but if I leave it this chocolate browny/black colour it will be pretty noticeable. What do you think?

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Peter i dug one out of the veneer on the back of my 12 string, i dont know what they used to bog it, but nothing would take, so i left it as a character mark after trying to get it to fill numerous times. It doesnt look as big as your though mine maybe 1/4".

Tony,
I had a go at sanding back the area around the glue mark to see what affect it would have on the grain. I think I'm staying with solid colour! It looked like total crap. The way the veneer is cut, it leaves a very open grain you can see a bit of it in the head-on shot below on the left. When I sanded it back it still left a dirty browny-black uneven stain on the wood which wouldn't look good with a lighter stain over it (I tried it). The way the veneer is sliced also, seems to leave a lot of open pores that retain all the dark stain (you can see what I mean on the left of the neck cutout in the picture below) even after sanding.
So I sanded it back down again and restained it with the original colour. I did notice though that on restaining it even with the same colour mix, it did seem to show the grain better - maybe because of all the extra sanding? Anyways, on the plus side, the extra sanding and staining seems to have lessened the glue mark considerably.
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I went out and picked up some 1/16" basswood from the hobby store today also and started replacing the strip of veneer on the left (lower) side of the neck cutout. I only need about 1/32" but with the 1/16" I have lots of room to get the thickness under the neck overhang just right.

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Personally i wont bother with veneers again from China, they are too thin to work out the flaws properly

Yeah, the thin maple caps are so touchy and riddled with glue spots. Used a wire brush a bit too enthusiastically and now need the top coats to act as grain filler to soak in and cover up the slightly deeper artificial grain that was created.

Decided the back was too dark and sanded it back down. That dye really sinks in deep though and I'm not sure how even I can get it. Will try restaining tomorrow with a 50/50 mix of burnt sienna and brunt umber.
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Here's the back restained with the 50/50 mix. I like it much better colour-wise. There are a few darker patches that sanding didn't seem to be able to take out, but I think I'm okay with it. I did sand it down again after the picture in the previous post was taken, so it was much closer to bare wood that what that pic shows.
What did I learn from all this? 1) staining with a dark colour to bring out the grain doesn't work too well on basswood, and 2) it's much easier to go to a darker colour than a lighter colour (you'd think I would have thought of that BEFORE staining :confused: ).
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I've also replaced the piece of veneer on the lower side of the neck cutout. Needs just a touch of wood filler maybe, but it's worked out well I think. Most of the repair is hidden by the overlap piece of the neck anyways but I wanted a good surface for it to sit on and glue to.
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Since I had all the dyes out, I thought I'd try a few samples for the side and top colour(s). I want to go lighter but still keep a bit of the reddish hue from the back.
Anyone have any thoughts about any of these samples? Good, bad, terrible?
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One more set of colours. Diggin' the reds lately.
All these colour samples were just one application of dye.
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After pondering for a while over a beer and consulting with my son, I didn't go with any of these choices :D
Well, okay, almost but after a couple more test samples I decided on 4/4/1 drops of Burnt Sienna/Yellow-R/Raw Sienna in 20cc water for the first and second coats on the sides and first coat for the face plus 4/2/2 drops of each for the second staining on the face. Here's the end result which I'm really pleased with - it's kind of a mapley colour. The side angle shot showing front/side is pretty close to the real colours.
In a moment (several actually) of over anticipation, I forgot to mask of the binding on the back/side when I stained the sides, so I'll have a bit of extra cleaning up to do at the end.
This got me to thinking.... when you apply the finish (Tru Oil for me) do you go right over the binding and if so, do you scrape it down later or just leave the finish right over the binding?
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Looking good. What do you mix the dyes with?

@Juddernaut - I just used water. The dyes come in 15ml bottles (like eye dropper bottles) and can be mixed in water or alcohol - http://www.woodessence.com/ColorFX-D...ts-P48C12.aspx. I tried the water on my TL-1 first and it worked well - didn't raise the grain much on the basswood - so I didn't bother trying it with alcohol. It wood was dry enough that I needed the extra working time you get with water-based stain vs. alcohol-based.

If it's Shellac based, coat over binding, then scrap off.

I buy the dyes in powdered form, very easy to make up either with Water of Alcohol... like wise, very easy to control colour intensity [strength of dye ], and subsequently, work out dilutions to achieve a certain colour.

If using dyes with Alcohol, you can tint Shellac to a specific colour..... BUT, you need to tint the whole batch of shellac for that one guitar build..... mixing it just stuffs a build

I'm using Tru Oil for the finish, which is some variation on polymerized tung oil not shellac, I believe.
Would there be any harm done to the binding if the finish were left on it?

Hi Peter,

Tru-oil will not damage the binding but it will discolour it slightly. On my LP-1SS, I sand back the Tru oil on the binding so it would go white again. dont really need tru-oil on the binding, but its a personal taste thing.

Got two coats of Tru Oil on the body this weekend. Finally warming up outside - had to move quicker before the TO started to set up.
Here's a couple progress pics. Loving how the grain is showing on the face. Will try to get a shot of the back later.Attachment 10629Attachment 10630

That is looking glorious Peter, very clean, very understated, just a touch of colour and then leaving the wood tell its own story, wonderful, wonderful work.

Loving the look. The grain wil pop more and more as the coats of TO soak into it. Great stuff!

cheers,
Gav.