Final Coat heart break high

Hey everyone,
This is my second build, first using dingo tone.
After gong through the phases of sanding, staining and colour intensifier-ering,
I moved on to applying the first layer of the final coat.
I'm in Sydney and did it one arvo when it was 25-27 degrees in mid December
Overnight the weather turned to poo and i noticed in the morning that the coat was starting to thin out and dry pretty patchy.
...Left it for a week while it rained a fair bit and it dried really uneven. I applied a second coat and thought that would make for an even finish. Left it for around 2 weeks and it now the finish looks like trash.

I was wondering/hoping someone can help us out or have some suggestions on how/if I can save this job.
I'll upload photos once I can take photos in the natural light

Cheers for any help/suggestions.

Hi more burritos. Maybe the humidity was high. The top coat will have to be fine steel woolled back carefully. Try not go too far and wipe stain off. Maybe have another crack at top coats when temperature and humidity not too high.

I feel your pain. The DT top coat does seem to be very touchy to temperature, humidity, wood preparation and overworking.

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Originally Posted by Fretworn

I feel your pain. The DT top coat does seem to be very touchy to temperature, humidity, wood preparation and overworking.

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Totally agree.

Just for clarification, what is considered high humidity? I'm still a bit unclear on what is good DT weather (and with Sydney weather it's been over a week since I've dared apply any DT so I guess I'm just getting antsy).

Is it just the DT body top coat that is susceptible?

I applied some final body and neck coats just before the hot weather gave way to storms and rain. Necks turned out fine. Body was a bit patchy, but it was on the DT colourless finish so really hard to tell. Fretworn suggested in another thread that the difference in wood grain could be a contributing factor. Basically I'm wondering if it's okay to continue doing intensifier stains and neck final coats while the weather is still iffy.

WA weather....0% humidity 100%of the time and hot.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Andy40

WA weather....0% humidity 100%of the time and hot.:cool:

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Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

Having used DT on 2 builds the experience has differed slightly but ended up less than perfect on both occasions. The stain seems to go on OK for 1 - 3 coats provided you leave no less than 2 days - maybe 5 days before applying next coat. On some coats I left 10 - 14 days before applying more and that made no difference. The main issue was that some parts looked dry whilst others looked shinier and more how you expected things to look. Additional coats did not help even out the dry parts either and when using 0000 steel wool between coats it often turned to crud. I think I wet sanded my EX-5 a couple of times as a result before getting a smooth even finish and then proceeded with TO as the one and only attempt with a top coat resulted in another wet sanding.

In relation to humidity it rarely gets below 60% in South East Qld at this time of year however for the most part the weather has been pretty stable over the past few months and whenever rain was forecast I held off applying coats so as to avoid any humidity related issues. Pity the BOM can't get better at forecasting as we badly need the rain they keep saying is coming our way.

To sum it up I think 2-3 coats of stain followed by similar amount of intensifier is about as much as you can apply in this part of OZ. Still unsure how you get the clear top coat to work properly and hope some of this helps you in some way.

That's good info to know Waz. I experienced the dry/shiny issue too with Black Stump stain coats, some parts looked really shiny and absorbed all the colour while other parts were patchy. For me, extra coats did even out the shine, but parts that wouldn't take stain remained that way - the only problems were on curves/edges which leads me to believe it's a prep issue. The curved edges where I focused a lot of my sanding turned out shiny and black. Perhaps it's a case of "when you think you've sanded enough, sand it again".

I've just given the first coat of my colourless build a going over with steel wool. It actually cleaned it up quite nicely, I can still see patchiness, but from what I can tell, it's just in the areas where I started the application. So perhaps applied too thick? I squeezed the bejeebus out of the application cloth, and tried not to go over any parts, but I remember thinking that it was thinning as I applied it. To give an indication of how much I used, I loaded the cloth up twice during the application. When the weather clears up I'll have another go and use a scrap bit of timber to eat up the first glob of finish from the cloth.

Perhaps guitar builders on the east coast need to migrate west for the summer.

Thanks guys, I have taken your observations on board and hopefully the new formula will address these issues.

It has been rather humid here in the Perth hills so perfect for testing the new formula in conditions that mirror those experienced on the East coast.

Will keep you posted.

Hi DB, thanks for the update and hope the new formula testing works out OK for you.

Just an observation I forgot to mention was that on my recent build being the EX-1, the 5th intensifier coat came out in micro small blobs when ragged on the surface. It was as if some of the oxides had partially solidified and was only noticed after that coat was fully applied. Almost looked like guitar acne and had to wet sand it back to get rid of that layer. Other than that the CG was clearly a different batch to the one I used on the experimental Orange EX-5 in that it took many more coats before colour developed hence why I applied 5 stain coats and went for the 5th intensifier too. Also should mention that there was maybe 2-3 days between each coat application, bottle was shaken for min 30 secs each time and tightly sealed after opening.

The EX-5 was the one where I had all the dry patch dramas and both DT kits of OS & CG seemed more clear and watery/almost oily than the CG Kit used on EX-1 which looked more opaque in comparison.

Fully appreciate where you are at with promoting local natural products and this plus the colour range is what attracted me to using DT.

Keep up the good work as you are probably not too far off being able to help some of us overcome these inconsistencies.

Can I hijack this thread?
My current is issue is my last finish coat of Dingotone has been drying for about a week now, and it is still tacky. Any suggestions?

Cheers.

Jeremy.

Hi Jeremy,

Hmmm, thats a pain... Can you move the body to a warmer area with some air movement?
Try that and let me know if there is any change in a few days.
If not, there could be a problem with the final coat. It may be that you got a kit that was sitting around at PBG for too long.
In that case, I will send you a new bottle of finish with instructions how to safely remove the tacky layer without destroying the other coats.

Ok will give that a go and let you know.

Thanks.

Dingobass,

No luck with the relocation and extended drying. I'm not sure that it is necessarily my particular bottle of final coat, as I also have separate neck final coat finish and my neck is the same. Perhaps too heavy a final coat?
Can you let me know the best process for taking it back and re-finishing.

Thanks.

Jeremy.

Jeremy, when you say "tacky" do you mean soft enough to leave fingerprints in, or is it hard but with a well used Post-it note kind of feel. My limited experience is that the MK1 DT top coat should be resistant to fingerprints after a week, but may retain the slight stickiness for over a month, especially in humid places like Sydney.

More like the second description, but I would say slightly stickier. I couldn't slid my hand comfortably over it.

Ok. Think I know what the problem is..
PM me your postal address and I will send you a replacement final coat.

Dingobass,
Were you able to send this off to me? Are there specific instructions for removal of the existing finish?

Cheers.

Jeremy.

Hey Jeremy, it should arrive over the next few days.
Out of curiosity, has the finish hardened up any more, Or does it still feel tacky?

Sorry missed that response.

Still tacky, the neck is a little better but all around no really usable.

Thanks.

OK...

Give the whole Guitar a scuff sand with 340 grit sand paper (you can also wet sand with 340 wet and dry, just dont drown your Guitar :) )
Then apply a coat of the new finish and let it cure, should be hard after a few days.
Give this coat a light scuff sand with 340 grit, dust it down and apply another 2 coats.
Let these coats harden, then very lightly scuff sand with 800 grit and apply one more coat.

If you are super patient, you can leave it for 21 days and then give it a cut and polish to get a nice gloss happening.
Or, you can give it a week and build and play.

Will do dingobass, however I haven't received any new finish in the post yet.

Cheers.

Stupid easter break... Stupid Oz Post.... Hope your DT shows up Monday......

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Originally Posted by dingobass

OK...

Give the whole Guitar a scuff sand with 340 grit sand paper (you can also wet sand with 340 wet and dry, just dont drown your Guitar :) )
Then apply a coat of the new finish and let it cure, should be hard after a few days.
Give this coat a light scuff sand with 340 grit, dust it down and apply another 2 coats.
Let these coats harden, then very lightly scuff sand with 800 grit and apply one more coat.

If you are super patient, you can leave it for 21 days and then give it a cut and polish to get a nice gloss happening.
Or, you can give it a week and build and play.

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@DB with the "Dust off" you mention above, would you wipe down with mineral spirits or similar or just use a clean, new soft bristled paintbrush?

Hey Franken, don't use any mineral spirits, as you say a clean brush or damp rag with water will do the trick. Good luck bro !

Cheers Wokka, I did a 400 grit rubdown of my first coat last night, I did brush off but I will wipe down as well to get rid of all of the trace dust.
I may need to rub right back and try again with the stain as I'm starting to see some things through the finish that I did not pick up in the final intensifier coat. (Guess that means the finish is doing its job eh?). we shall see how we go.