First Build - ES-12G

Hi folks,
So I've decided to jump in at the deep end and start with a 12 string.
Always wanted one in a Gibson style but I'm not ready to pay 5k.
I'm going with Karijini Red.

I'm at the sanding stage at the moment and have a few questions.
The first being, how much sanding is required?
I bought the Dingotone kit which goes from 180g through to 400.
I've done a run through all of them but I've noticed some slight pitting between the veneer grain that runs across the body. The surface itself feels very smooth, but the pitting (if that's what you'd call) is noticeable under light.
I'm not sure whether trying to sand the pitting out with the 180g would be overdoing it.
Would post a photo but It doesn't show up. Any advice much appreciated.
Will try and post regular updates.
regards
JohnAttachment 6495

Hey John, looks like a great kit! Be very careful sanding the veneer - it's very thin and there's a good chance you'll sand through. When that happens it sucks the big one. Any chance you could post a picture of the "pits" in the surface? Maybe some steam might be a possibility to raise them out, but hard to say without looking at them.

cheers,
Gav.

HI Gavin,
Thanks for the reply. Pic attached, probably doesn't show it very well, actually it makes it look slightly worse than it is.
I spent maybe a 2-3 minutes sanding with each grit? I'm new to this whole sanding lark.
As i mentioned, the surface is very smooth, so maybe once I apply the stain etc. it won't be as noticeable?
Thanks again
John
Attachment 6501

Hey John,
Noice kit :)
With the veneers, you can always expect some pits.. Best not to over sand it as Gav pointed out.
Sand it to 400 and go mental with the stain :p

Most of the pits will be filled by the Intensifying and top coats. As each layer cures, you can gently scuff sand with the 400 grit... Just don't get too carried away :)

By the end of the finishing process most if not all will be filled.

If you have any dramas, just yell out!

Excellent Dingobass, thats just what i wanted to hear ;)

hey John awesome looking kit. As DB says once all the coats go on the tiny pits won't be visible.
Should look a treat in karijini

Hi John, I ordered my ES-12G back in September, I'm hoping its on it's way as of yesterday!

I'll be watching your build with interest, as I've jumped in the deep end too with my first build being a 12 string.

Good luck!

thanks wokkaboy, thats what i'm hoping

good choice swanny
I'll try to do regular updates, good luck with yours too ;)

So heres the body after 4 coats of Karijini (front and back).
I'm after a deeper red but wood colour is showing through giving it a salmon-ish hue.
So getting a second bottle of stain delivered so i can apply maybe 2-3 more coats.
Attachment 6592

hi John,
good move to get another bottle of stain coat. 2-3 more coats should be getting deeper and ready for intensifying coats.
There's no need to steel wool too much between coats, just a light rub so you don't lose too much colour

thanks wokka, you just answered my next question.
So, light rub with steel wool before applying more stain coats, got it ;)

that's it John, just to remove any high points or lint from the cloth that stuck and to give the next coat bit of tooth.
Usually 2-3 minute light rub with super fine steel wool is enough. Any more and you will remove to much stain

She's looking really nice John! As the colour deepens she's really going to pop. I really love this kit - yours might actually be the first build diary for one of these - congrats! I play my 335 12-string all the time and it's awesome. Can't wait to see how yours comes out!

cheers,
Gav.

thanks Gav, always loved the sound of a 12-string
and the look ;)

Looking good, John! How has the pitting gone after you applied the stain?

nice work John, and a 12 stringer, very cool

Hi Swanny,
Its not as noticable as it was
and the surface feels pretty smooth,
will be more so once i apply the finishing coats

an update of sorts. checked the neck today, quarter turn on the rod in preparation for checking the frets.
Also checked the neck fit and alignment. Fit looks pretty good to me, i could probably push it down a bit more to get rid of that gap off the body but i didnt have the energy this evening ;).
also the alignment looks good, about 3-4mm of neck outside the first and 12th strings?
altho i used string to check it (didnt have any cotton). Will check it again once I get the body finished.
Also made up a dummy body to set up the wiring, Have decided to go with braided/shielded wire.
Attachment 6733
Attachment 6734
Attachment 6735

nice one John, don't think I've seen anyone finish a guitar in cardboard bwhahahahahaah

cool template

3-4mm of string offset each side should be fine

also noticed a wee gap underneath the neck.
Not too fussed about it to be honest, but has anyone else had this?
Attachment 6736

Hi John as long as there is no gap between body and fingerboard ?

Can you please post a close up of the heel join in the same position you have it now ?

will try to work out best way to cover the gap between the binding and the heel

I'm pretty proud of my template to be honest wokka, I was bored, had a bit too much time on my hands ;)

there's no gap, the neck is just sitting on the veneer, if that makes sense.
can't get closer as i'm using my iphone and it blurs out. heres a larger photo,
Attachment 6738

Good work on the template, John!

thanks swanny, lets hope i can do as good a job on the real guitar

Hey John, might be worth trying to get a white filler in that area between the neck heel and the body binding, looks a bit messy as it is. Might blend in better if you try and match the binding colour, or another option is to get matching binding, cut into small pieces and put in a bowl of acetone and it breaks down to a liquid and use that to fill it

thanks wokka, good advice, i was probably going to stick some filler in there, but the binding/acetone thing sounds interesting.
I guess either the body is thicker or the neck is thinner than usual, as i noticed on Swanny's 12G it doesn't looks so bad.

I've gone the easy option with the logo, The Diamond thingie I saw on an old ES 12 string, and the Pitbull logo.
Made them up on CAD (hope thats OK Adam?) and printed on a pearl background. Will send them off to Nova to get them printed on decal paper. Hoping they'll look almost pearlish under a couple of finishing coats
Attachment 6821

That logo should look good John. Are you putting colour on the head stock?

yeh swanny, i'm going to try and put a black stain on the top face, just have to make sure I mask the sides off

That's what I was planning for mine. It seems that masking tape is prone to leaching, so maybe don't flood the edges with stain.

Guys you might want to get some 3M pinstripers tape instead of normal painters tape. It makes a much better seal and you get very little leakage. You still should be careful just in case, but it's heaps better. Personally I love the 6mm 471 tape from 3M and use it every time I mask off to create the edge I need. I use blue painters tape attached to the 471 to mask off the rest of the area.

cheers,
Gav.

hi swanny/gavin, I used 3m blue masking tape on a test piece with black stain and the results were disastrous. lots of seepage under the tape. I've been told that using a light coat from a spray can over the finishing coat might be a better idea?

gavin, did you use the 471 tape with stain?

No, I must admit not with stain edges. Sorry it wasn't of more help.

cheers,
Gav

John, I guess the nature of a stain is to soak into the grain, which will hold the colour of the stain applied. From what I've tried, it doesn't matter if you tape off an area before staining, when you apply the liquid it will be absorbed by the grain, and depending on the density of the timber, will leach through the grain under the tape, like a sponge.

For a flat surface like the headstock, if the sides are stained a lighter colour than the black you have planned for the face, then maybe spraypainting the black would be a better option. The paint will dry before it has a chance to be absorbed into the timber to show up around the edges.

Maybe many light applications of the stain would have the same effect, so the stain dries before it can be absorbed into the timber.

This is just my thoughts on how to approach the leaching problem, and others may have a better option.

What I typically do is to paint the headstock face and dye the rest. On my current LP build I taped the edges with 471 tape (and stuffed the tuner holes) and sprayed black auto paint. It was easy to clean up the edges with sandpaper because I hdn't stained there yet. I then added some lacquer for protection (using 471 again) and cleaned up the sides with sandpaper again. In both cases there wasn't actually any paint on the sides (the masking took care of it) but I wiped with sandpaper anyway just to clean up the paint/lacquer edge. After I was happy with the face, I then stained the rest of the headstock, just being gentle care on the sides and top that I didn't disturb my nice black edge. It worked well for me.

cheers,
Gav.

thanks for the info/advice chaps, looks like i might grab a spray can.
Might use your method next time gavin, headstock face first, then the rest