My ES-3 Thread moved

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gavin1393

A little work has been done on the neck to date. Full sanding, shaping of the headstock, fell fret job all levelled, painted and ready to play....once it has its body....

Alongside the neck are the tuners I plan to put in... :)

---

I'm just about to start my ES-3 build, I had been awaiting a few luthier tools from Crimson Guitars in the UK to arrive [IMHO better built that Stewert Mac gear at same price or less] and others bit & pieces from Ebay sellers, the UK ones arrived yesterday.

I used the Notched straight edge tool to try and get the fretboard as flat as possible, at first, if I held this tool down at the first fret, I had a relief of at least 3.5/4mm at the end of the fret board, which was a bit of a shock :eek: at first [I had thought I might have a hump mid fretboard Ohh, No!].... anyway, I've slowly released tension on the truss rod [one quarter of a turn - leave and hour or more, re measure etc ].
I've gradually managed to get that 4mm difference down to around .5mm over the last few hours, doing nothing but slowly releasing tension from the truss rod....persistence pays off, hopefully I'll get it perfectly flat without any dramas.

I'm glad I did this BEFORE I considered levelling the frets, as if I were to go about it BEFORE I knew the fret board was as level as it could be, I could have totally stuffed up some perfectly seated frets due to ignorance, and gone about ripping them out thinking my fretboard had the hump I first thought it had, and needed planing down. [Well not exactly true, as I know better], but my point for this post is, a LOT of KIT builders WOULDN'T KNOW this, they wouldn't know the trouble shooting steps to take, and what tools to use.
As a Moderator, and as somebody that can effect changes, I thing it would be in not only your best interest, but PitBull kits in general, if you made a sticky , in quite a bit more detail, on the possible challenges a builder might face regarding neck relief/fretting.

I, and I gather you would also know, that any freshly made guitar neck needs some settling time after being fretted.
They will usually tension the truss rod a bit higher than needed to make sure the frets don't pop out while in storage/freight/humidity conditions....fair enough....but KIT BUILDERS NEED to have this known to them, and on the best course of action on how to fix it....I haven't seen a sticky alerting people to this....it should be included with all KIT's IMHO, with a link to the forum on what to do.

Also, maybe a cheap tool made available [Masonite- laser cut, notched straight edge tool - it should suffice strength/stability/durability ] , or included with each kit, unless specified you don't need one....just a idea.

What got me thinking about this was you mentioning you had to fret level. and the post [I'm sure you have read] from that kid in Tassie that had hideous action problems, but had no idea on what the cause was, how to measure it, or how to explain it so he could get help.
A cheap Masonite tool could have help fixed that...still could.

Anyway...nice build......I don't know what sort of White you used, but on my personal experience with semi Gibsons dressed in White, the White crackled....looks OK in a deshellved Keith Richards sort of way .

very good points above!! even though Im a noobie, I have absolutely NO intention of going near any sort of setup/fret work until the neck is on the body and under tension for at least a week

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tweaky

As a Moderator, and as somebody that can effect changes, I thing it would be in not only your best interest, but PitBull kits in general, if you made a sticky , in quite a bit more detail, on the possible challenges a builder might face regarding neck relief/fretting.

I, and I gather you would also know, that any freshly made guitar neck needs some settling time after being fretted.
They will usually tension the truss rod a bit higher than needed to make sure the frets don't pop out while in storage/freight/humidity conditions....fair enough....but KIT BUILDERS NEED to have this known to them, and on the best course of action on how to fix it....I haven't seen a sticky alerting people to this....it should be included with all KIT's IMHO, with a link to the forum on what to do.

---

You mean like this sticky "Levelling your Frets" which is part of another sticky "How to build your Pit Bull Guitar" which was posted in March 2013.

http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...ead.php?t=1775

In the first post on the thread we confirm :-

"First step in the process is to make sure the neck is dead straight, otherwise its a pointless exercise. Use a straight edge or naked eye if you don't!"

Hi Gavin

Read your post here and just ordered one for 30' and 34' scale basses. Thanks for educating and making my life easier from now on. :)

You have Noobies that don't have a clue.
They don't know WTF you mean by "Using a straight edge"....that's my whole point.....explain it for those that have had absoloutly NO F.I..... after all, that's who you are selling your kits to.

Supply some sort of cheap straight edge.....they are paying a pittance on the KIT, do you think they are going to pay EXTRA for a straight edge?... be realistic , they won't pay for it if they deem they don't need it.

That's why it NEEDS to be included, rather than optional.
If following instructions, using the supplied kit, the KIT should be fine.

Gavin...please don't think I'm having a go at you, or any other Mod at this forum.

I hate to speak these words,.....but Know you market....who it is ATM?...who it might/could be.

If you want somebody else to do it better [and take Pitbulls market], then all they have to do is watch your mistakes

Give some instructions with the kit regarding what to "Expect" with the kit....then link to forum.

As long as you keep the KIT and the FORUM linked together, with meaningful instructions with the Kits, then all should be OK

http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...ead.php?t=1775

Here is the sticky. I made it easier for you and moved it to "how to build your Pit bull Guitar"

As for including notched straight edges in every kit, that would increase the cost significantly as we would have to get several different scales made.

Most folk who actually read the forums and ask questions will be informed on how to make one for less than $5.
Head to your local $2 shop and buy a steel rule, then notch it with a file to suit your particular neck.
Voilà! Instant notched straight edge that will last a life time.
As a professional Luthier, I have made several of these and they work perfectly.

As for that kid from Tassie, if you actually read that thread you would see that he was given all the advice and help on the forum and, may I add, via emails.
He chose to be a know it all and not listen to the help offered.

In future rather than writing a stream of consciousness attacking Gav or any other forum member, try asking if there is a link or thread to your question.

Tweaky not everyone on the forum is a newbie and there is enough support and help on the forum to help any questions newbies have.
If fret leveling a neck is out of their abilities then there are plenty of people who can help, or as DB pointed out there are cheap alternatives.
Or often when members get more experienced they come back and improve their builds with greater experience and tools etc.
This is a happy community and we don't need negative comments like yours.
The forum generally solves most problems builders have.
Adam is trying to keep the cost of the kits to a minimum so it's really up to the builder to source the necessary tools depending on their budget

You have Noobies that don't have a clue.
They don't know WTF you mean by "Using a straight edge"....that's my whole point.....explain it for those that have had absoloutly NO F.I..... after all, that's who you are selling your kits to.

Supply some sort of cheap straight edge.....they are paying a pittance on the KIT, do you think they are going to pay EXTRA for a straight edge?... be realistic , they won't pay for it if they deem they don't need it.

That's why it NEEDS to be included, rather than optional.
If following instructions, using the supplied kit, the KIT should be fine.

Gavin...please don't think I'm having a go at you, or any other Mod at this forum.

I hate to speak these words,.....but Know you market....who it is ATM?...who it might/could be.

If you want somebody else to do it better [and take Pitbulls market], then all they have to do is watch your mistakes

Give some instructions with the kit regarding what to "Expect" with the kit....then link to forum.

As long as you keep the KIT and the FORUM linked together, with meaningful instructions with the Kits, then all should be OK

Actually, we DO know our market.

It is clearly pointed out in the letter packed with every kit that all the help and advice needed is right here on the forum.
All that any one has to do is ask and they will get all the help they need.

I dont know why, but you are the first person out of over two thousand customers to have a problem with any of this.

Correction. It is actually in excess of three thousand kits sold world wide.

Hey all - lets all step back for a sec.
Tweaky - appreciate your feedback - DB and Gav have put a lot of effort into putting together a "How to" sticky that has become in part a set of instructions that are sent out to everyone with their kits. In that, people are encouraged to do a mock build (make sure all the parts are accounted for and there's no major issues with the guitar) and to set up a build diary, so that they can get help. We do find that some choose not to - even when we are in extensive converations via facebook / email with them - as the saying goes - "you can lead a horse to water...".

Hopefully you got the instructions with your kit. Understand that it may not have come through - if it hasn't, please let me know and I'll organise one for you. Overall though, the Pitbull Guitar's big differentiator is in the level of support and service that we provide (hence having two tame luthiers as mods), so if you have suggestions on how we can improve that service, I'm sure that Adam is happy to listen.

Hopefully though, the information available is accessible enough for even newbies to follow - I must admit, I've just passed the two year anniversary of starting my first build, so I'd still call myself a noob in terms of what I am still learning about the process. I strongly encourage anyone considering building a guitar to loiter on the forum, set up a build diary and ask lots of questions. It is fairly straightforward, but as with anything, you don't become an expert overnight - it takes time, effort and a whole lot of openness to new ways of doing things.

If you do have some concerns, I'd suggest that an email to one of the mods or Adam at DingoBass, Gavmeister, Brendan or Adam at Pitbullguitars dot com may be a good place to start - hopefully we can assist. We're all open for constructive criticism and ways we can improve things.

O' God this has got well miss understood.
My ONE and ONLY query was regarding neck/fret profiles RE: Gavins firsthand experience with his ES-3 build, and how others might go about straightening their neck/fret level them with no supplied tools in the kits.....nothing else.
I related it to my first-hand experience with my ES-3's neck.....just shoot me!

Honestly......I Hate the F@%*ng Internet...everything gets misconstrued .

My further comments were related to how somebody other KIT builder could/ couldn't get the same results.
Obviously hit a raw nerve ...WTF it was, and why I ???

EDIT: Fret difference now down to .3mm...not sure if it can be bettered, ???

Hi Brendan, as a newbie who received first kit in August I was not aware of all these resources that could be found until after goodies arrived. It would have been extremely useful if kit website encouraged becoming a community member before ordering as I had been looking and drooling for several months before parting with the cash. After reading many of these forums I have since decided upon ordering various electronic upgrades, more DT as there are not enough colour swatches to assist with figuring out what the stain might look like on the various timber bodies that are available and having access to pics of completed builds would have helped plenty too.
A solution might be to add a 'First time kit builder FAQ's' on home page where most of the big issues can be addressed, and one of those being encouraged to sign up as a community member in order to access more content.
Hopefully this is received as positive feedback for a great bunch of folks doing tremendous things.
Cheers, Waz

Tweaky it makes no sense to have a straight edge in every kit. Would put the price up at least $20 each kit.
Would make more sense to put it in the shop so you only have to buy one of each scale length.
Not many builders stop at one build.
Forum member Pablo has made some nice straight edges with G and F type scales.
As long as most scale lengths are available in the shop everyone should be happy

Tweaky - not trying to shoot anyone - thought it might be some misunderstanding - hence my comments. Agree that the downside to internet is that you can easily miss the whole tone of the conversation - so if my post appears like I'm having a go - my apologies.

I think Wokka hit the nail on the head - it's cheaper for us as builders to make our own tools (that won't be as good as Crimson Guitars / StewMac - given) than for Adam to supply the various tools that could be used for a top job. The margins on guitars in Pitbull aren't massive so anything extra in a kit would therefore hit the bottom line on the kits and make them more expensive. That said - still open for feedback and appreciate your comment. I think that Waz'(s?) comment may have hit the nail on the head with making it more evident for first time builders.

Waz - likewise - appreciate the feedback - I'll have a chat with Adam and see if we can make some of the FAQ stuff stand out more for noobs. Overall, the whole Pitbull guitars thing has been going for just over three years and has grown massively since it started. It's really set the tone for others that are trying to emulate. We're constantly trying to maintain that edge and it's contributions from all that love the forum and kits that make it happen. Please keep the feedback going (though maybe a thread under the Feedback subforum (http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...splay.php?f=49) so that us Mods can really see it - after all there are heaps of posts each day and we can miss the odd one! :) )!

BTW - great to see you on the tools again Gav - this looks like a tres cool build! Keen to see it in the flesh!

Good idea.
Maybe have a Luthiers TOOL builders /uses thread.
Seems we have high-jacked a thread...a common occurrence it seems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tweaky

Seems we have high-jacked a thread...a common occurrence it seems.

---

Yes - common occurrence ;) .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wokkaboy

Tweaky it makes no sense to have a straight edge in every kit. Would put the price up at least $20 each kit.
Would make more sense to put it in the shop so you only have to buy one of each scale length.
Not many builders stop at one build.
Forum member Pablo has made some nice straight edges with G and F type scales.
As long as most scale lengths are available in the shop everyone should be happy

---

Agree, no sense having a tool with the kit more than once.
That's why I suggested it be made optional for people that order more than one kit, or a 'Tick out', not that 25cm of 8mm Masonite is going to cost anything more than a few cents .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tweaky

Good idea.
Maybe have a Luthiers TOOL builders /uses thread.

---

From memory we did have one - may have been moved around with the last forum redesign - trying to cut down the number of sub forums - will look into it...

http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...ead.php?t=3919

Sticky, link to a great publication of home made tools.

Actually on topic [ A Rare occurrence ]......I am pleased to announce that the neck of my ES-3, after numerous slight tweaks of the truss rod, is now perfectly FLAT.....let the fret levelling begin ;)

Cool DB - knew it was there somewhere :).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tweaky

Actually on topic [ A Rare occurrence ]......I am pleased to announce that the neck of my ES-3, after numerous slight tweaks of the truss rod, is now perfectly FLAT.....let the fret levelling begin ;)

---

Sweet! Mind you - it hasn't happened 'til we see photos :D.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brendan

Sweet! Mind you - it hasn't happened 'til we see photos :D.

---

What! You mean on any previous ES-3 neck? ...Joking guys :rolleyes:

It is true...got to love Dan Erlewine's Guitar fix it coloums over the years in Guitar Player magazine.

I talk with his twin brother regarding high magnification macro photography at another forum , he is just as respected in that field as Dan is with Guitar repairs.........the cousin is a Guitar AMP repair GURU