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Hi guys,
I put the old guitar down for quite a while and never got around to intonating, but now I might as well go ahead and do it. They're all okay (had to pull everything way back though), except for the G string which is routinely sharp by a heinous amount (10-15 cents depending on the location).
The bridge is way back on the posts, and the saddle is all the way back.
What should I change?
It's out at the 12th fret as well.
Which axe is this on Mario?
Sometimes you can get a bit more by spinning the saddle 180.
Hey Mario,
The "G" string can sometimes have intonation problems because of it's gauge since it should actually be wound.
Can you please check for me how A intonates on the 2nd fret of the G string. if it's way too sharp, you have may simply have a nut issue . (I suspect this could be the issue as you mention it is also sharp on the 12th fret at 'G'.)
If you had the same issue on all the other strings thats when you have a nut height problem. If it's just the G string then check your slot depth. It may need to come down. Also make sure the 'G' string is not binding in the slot.
If this does not solve your problem then the bridge could very well be in the wrong spot. Try DB's fix, otherwise you will have to move the bridge back about 3-5mm. Post some pictures of the nut so we can determine the slot height and a pic with the bridge and where the saddles are sitting will be useful.
I would also be checking for any metal burs that might be sitting in the saddle and getting rid of them using steel wool or by filing them down.
Also check that the pickups are not too close to the strings as magnetic pull from the pickups can cause issues with intonation...particularly if this is a strat?
How old are your strings? Old strings are more difficult to tune than new strings. This is because of uneven stretching of the string and the subsequent erratic vibration patterns. In some instances, old strings are impossible to tune correctly. If you have difficulty achieving good intonation, change strings.
Hi DB,
This is on the starcaster I more or less finished a while ago but haven't had the chance to go through and set up.
Strings as follows (low to high; 2nd fret, 12th fret, 16th fret in cents)
E: +6, -2, +0
A: +2, -7, -6
D: +2, -0, -3
G: +14, +14, +20
B: +9, +4, +4
E: +3, +0, +0
My impressions are that the saddle is too far back for A and D... The nut is probably too high and/or the slots are too high on G and B.
These are fresh strings.
With a capo on 1, frets 3, 13, 17;
G: +2, +7, +16
B: +1, +0, +2
I'm not sure what to do about the G string, as I think the bridge is as far back as it can go, and so is the saddle.
Thanks guys.
So I went gung-ho and backed the bridge all the way back (intonation screw is all the way back).
With a capo on, it seems okay now. It's only off by 1 or 2 cents at 3 and 13 and 4 (sharp) at 17.
Without the capo, it's about 10 sharp all the way up still
Did you completely miss my post?
Hi gav, the batteries for the camera are charging at the moment so I can't get a decent picture up.
I went through and checked for burrs and pulled the string in and out of the nut slot a few times.
Check the slot depth at the nut at the 'G' string to ensure the slot depth is consistent and not too high. You may even try snipping the spring in half at the saddles on the 'G' saddle to allow you to go back further. Remove the spring altogether first and see if you can intonate it then only cut the spring.
Another thing you could try checking is the general straightness of the neck, when a guitar is tuned up to pitch there is actually supposed to be a small amount of forward-bow in the neck, this helps to reduce fret buzzing, if the neck has a bit of a twist in it or a warp it will make intonating the guitar hard to get right since the twisting or warping puts unequal tensions on the strings.
You check the straightness of the neck by sighting down either side of the neck, each side should have the same amount of curvature, if one side of the neck has more curvature than the other you may have a neck that has developed a twist in it.
To check the forward bow in the neck, put a capo on the neck just behind the first fret, next hold the low E-String down at the 17th, or the fret closest to the body of the guitar, then use a set of Automotive Feeler-Gauges to measure the clearance between the top of the 8th fret and the underneath of the low E-String, you want a clearance of .010 inch (sorry for the imperial measurements), tighten or loosen the truss rod till you measure .010 inch clearance, do the same for the high E-String.
As Gavin said, originally back in the 40's or 50's, electric guitars used to be strung with sets of strings that had a wound G-String, it was only when guitarists, like Eric Clapton and Jimi Hendrix, started using un-wound G-Strings in order to extend the range of notes that could be played when soloing since an un-wound G-String made it easier to do string bends, that the idea of using un-wound G-Strings caught on, this led to intonation problems because the un-wound G-String tends to play sharp due to the extra tension on the string, hence the reason why the G-String saddle ends up being set further back than usual, on a guitar with a wound G-String you'll see that the string saddles are set so that the string length gets progressively longer as the string thickness increases towards the low E-String, have a look at the string saddle of a Steel-String acoustic guitar and see how it is angled.
I'm at a total loss as to how to intonate this guitar. My tele is still totally perfect, and the action is pretty decent.
On this guitar the strings are miles off the fretboard as it goes towards the body - and the bridge is backed as far down and as far back as it can go. The intonation is terrible.
Basically everything is sharp. I swapped from ball to hoop so I can get my bridge even closer to the body (well, it tilts up or a little forward when I am tuned to tension)
I've tried everything I did to get the tele working perfectly. But I just can't get the intonation anywhere near where it should be.
It's off by a long way.
Should I just bin the guitar at this point and sell the bridge/pickups etc for parts?
Hi ihasmario, there is always a fix of some kind. Mate post some snaps. it could be that the neck angle is a bit out or the neck has a lot of forward bow.
Pictured: Bridge pulling up under tension, bridge action way too high, nut action a little too high (but not too bad), bridge shown where it is now (after I reduced the scale length, having had it all the way out and still being over 20 cents sharp on basically everything and pulling up even more), side profile of the guitar.
The only potential fix I can think of right now will basically brick the guitar if it fails - i.e. glue the bridge posts inside the guitar all the way down and then go from there.
Other than that I am at a total loss. I've been through multiple attempts to intonate the guitar, and the best I can get is just about everything backed off all the way, with horrendously sharp notes.
I can't fix it for the life of me and it's sucked all of the enjoyment of playing this particular guitar - hence why there's knobs missing on it right now: I don't care about it enough to replace them.
It's worth a lot in parts, and it was a total bitch to wire up - but is totally unplayable for me.
If you get the chance, bring her up and I will have a look at it for you mate.
Hey yeah DB, I'll take you up on that offer some time soon. I'm at a total loss with this one.
I'll bring up my double bass WIP to get your advice for woodworking the boosters while I'm there too :)
No worries buddy, just yell out when you are ready :)
Was there a solution?
I am having similar issues on a bog standard ST-1. So I am looking for ideas.
Hey Rabz, is the saddle wound all the way back?
If so, you can gain a bit more wiggle room by spinning the saddle 180.
I'll give that a go tonight.
Fixing the nut slot on Low E got the 12th from "F" back to about 20 cent sharp, but the saddle is against the spring.
maybe a fine route and inset the bridge a bit?
So a modicum of success.
Started at first principals and re-tensioned truss rod.
Checked nut heights. OK.
This led to some improvements - A D G all intonate now. (B & High E were OK previously).
So on to Low E.
Looked at "spinning Saddle 180°" but I can't see how you can do that on a stock ST-1 bridge.
While I had it apart, I removed the spring and that gave me enough travel.
So that prompts the question - what does the spring do? When under string tension the saddle is pretty well fixed in place. Is it a "slap and rattle" spring?
In any case I'll dig through the ol' bits box and find a spring that I'll cut to length.
Spring is really only there to hold the saddle in place during string changes, so don't be afraid to snip a bit off..
Been known to do it occasionally:p