So this is an ST-1 I bought in the 3rd Anniversary Sale. Seemed like a good excuse to buy another kit.
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Still figuring out what I'm going to do with it.
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So this is an ST-1 I bought in the 3rd Anniversary Sale. Seemed like a good excuse to buy another kit.
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Still figuring out what I'm going to do with it.
nice one Sam, I got one of these as well for stocks. Looks like you have been bitten by GAS mate hahha
Had GAS for a loooooong time. This must be the modified version of GAS where you build them yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by wokkaboy
So learning new build skills. I wanted to do a veneer. The basswood ST-1 is a bit plain, so it seems like a good candidate.
I have some camphor laurel bookmatched veneer.
Cut a cardboard template to see what it might look like strat shaped...
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And again, slightly moved over.
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hnnng...
Hopefully there'll be some veneer left to do the headstock as well.
Things I don't know about applying a veneer? Just about everything.
Questions I've thought of so far:
- What sort of glue?
- How to cut the strat routes, before or after gluing the veneer down?
- Should the veneer be soaked to flatten it or just pressed flat when glued?
- When veneering a headstock, glue it before or after shaping?
nice one Sam,
how thick is the veneer ? You will probably have to soak it before applying as there are alot of rounded edges on a ST-1 and the elbow cut. I use kwik grip to glue it on
http://www.bunnings.com.au/selleys-5...sive-_p1233573
I glue the veneer before cutting the shape.
It's 0.6mm sheets.Quote:
Originally Posted by wokkaboy
So you apply it while it's still soft from soaking?Quote:
Originally Posted by wokkaboy
Both the routing and the outline? So glue on some rectangular pieces then cut it to match the edges?Quote:
Originally Posted by wokkaboy
Hi Sam,
yes I dry off the veneer after a good soaking, then apply the kwik grip, follow the instructions and then put a flat sheet ontop of the veneer and clamp.
For the body veneer I'd cut the rough outer shape which you have done. Don't cut any internal shapes as the final position of the veneer you won't know.
Once it's dried you should be able to feel where the edges are. Get a sharp blade out and start cutting the cavity, very carefully
Doesn't that mean the elbow angle wouldn't get clamped?Quote:
Originally Posted by wokkaboy
What sort of preparation for the front of the guitar? In fact, do any sanding at all before getting the veneer glued down?
I've never glued veneer onto a curved top such as a ST-1. You may have to wedge something in between the top sheet and the veneer to hold it down onto the elbow cut.
In the past I haven't done any preparation on the front. Just make sure the surface is clean before you apply the kwik grip
Should I do one piece at a time or try and do them together? One at a time seems like it would be easier to line up and keep lined up.
yeah Sam I'd try at the same time as the veneer will still be moist and more flexible.
If by chance the veneer on the elbow cut doesn't stay glued you will have to do that in another stage.
As I said I haven't attempted this body shape so it will be see how it goes
Not sure you caught what I meant. I didn't mean for the elbow cut. There are two pieces of veneer. I could soak them separately and glue one and then the other. Wouldn't that make matching the seam in the middle easier?
By the way, those photos might look like I've started cutting already, but the only thing I cut was the piece of cardboard that is sitting on top of the two sheets of untouched veneer. It's a mask.
Hi Sam,
oh ok its 2 piece veneer. There's a technique with kwik grip you lay the veneer down from the centre and roll the veneer onto the surface and try not to move it once it's made contact with the glue.
Might be safer to glue them separately. Draw the centreline and get one side as close as you can. Make sure there is a bit of play in the size of the veneer.
I realised you had cardboard ontop of the veneer in the photo
So the glue goes onto the body, and the veneer is pressed down onto it.
Should the area of the body being veneered get sanded to any particular grit or prepared in any other way first?
Sam, if you pull this off it's gonna look great. I wonder (having never tried this) is you will need some sort of wedge to help clamp down the elbow cut area.
Hi Sam,
I thinks Woks has got it pretty much sussed out. I tried a different method of using Titebond and a hot iron, which although it worked, it was a real hassle and I think Woks way is much easier.
I would definitely glue each piece separately. I tried taping them together and glueing it in one go and it was pretty much a disaster.
The only thing I would add is that as you are veneering a curved/contoured body shape that you may need a vacuum bag. A mate of mine has veneered a skateboard and he used cheap hand pumped vacuum bag he got off ebay for about $50 I think.
Anyway good luck. You gotta try new things, that's the only way we learn new skills.
Saw the vacuum press kits at carbatec. Bit costly for an experiment. Havent found anything similar other than clothes storage bags on eBay. I wondered if pulling cling wrap over the edges could achieve something similar.
Actually kind of curious if the sub $10 vacuum storage bags wouldn't do the same thing.
Having never used one I'm not sure Sam. But I do know that Carbatec are about the most expensive place around, there has to be cheaper than that.
Reading some search results says people have tried the "space saver" type bags with mixed results. Also seems to depend on the way the veneer was prepared.
So here I am talking about veneer... and I haven't even unpacked the kit properly.
So I got out the body and neck, check the fit and the scale, etc...
Nup. That does not fit. No one has even checked that before.
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I don't mean it's tight. I mean it would take a hammer and then it would never come back out again - or break.
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Doesn't even really match the same shape curve at the end.
That's as far as I got with the unpacking.
The tele kit I got from elsewhere as my first build had an impossibly tight pocket so a bit of careful sanding on the sides of the heel of the neck got me a good firm fit, also gave it a bit of a touch around the end of the neck to sort the misfit there as well.
The STA-1 was loose but not too bad so I lined the sides of the neck pocket with some copper shielding tape which tightened it up to the point I was happy with it.
I'm wondering if the problem is actually the corners of the pocket. If the curve matched the heel better the whole unit would move in a mm or so and the sides may well fit properly.
However, before make those sorts of decisions, I need to check the rest of the bits. The tremelo, etc.
So I couldn't check other things like scale length, tremelo position etc without making the neck fit.
I sanded the corners of the heel carefully to make them as closely shaped to the round corners of the pocket as I could. When I started they were quite angular.
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Now it fits quite snugly into the pocket. I can move on.
looks good Sam
pretty decent fit now mate
Like a glove.
Nice work mate. Looks good :-)
Snug as a bug, nice fit now
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Template and cut the top section of the veneer. This was sprayed first with veneer softener.
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Apply glue. Titebond I.
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Vacuum press.
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This is just a common vacuum storage bag and household vacuum cleaner. Wasn't going to lash out on a proper vacuum press and pump at this point.
and press...
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(that heavy UPS I haven't been motivated enough to install finally has a use...)
Removed from the press hours later.
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This is where I realised that at some point my template had gotten flipped over.
The straight grain was supposed to be at the end of the body with the curved grain under the pickguard.
It had a better look about it.
Tried to make the other section line up and look acceptable, but couldn't so it was time to select the undo function.
Steam to loosen the glue.
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And peel...
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Some time later... a ST body with veneereal disease.
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Some more work with a cabinet scraper and then some sanding cleaned it up well enough to provide a smooth surface for another attempt.
Deciding between these two of the possible layouts of a couple of replacement veneer pieces.
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Probably the first one as it has the most detail.
Going to make triple sure I don't flip any templates this time.
Easy to do Sam flip the veneer and glue the wrong side. I would have left it on. It looked cool the curved grain near the elbow cut. All good experience to remove and redo the gluing. Love the press!
Yeah, the press worked well the first time.
Not so well the second time as will be seen in Adventures In Veneering, Part 3.
Just checking it and it's got ripples.
ripples in the veneer!
aargh!!!! hate it when that happens!
its not easy to get right Sam and may take a few goes. Headstock veneers are much easier as they are so much smaller than a guitar body and you can get clamps all over the surface of a headstock.
Do you have to buy more veneer ?
Will the ripples be hidden by the pickguard ?
I won't be buying more veneer. Veneer costs would get to be much as the kit was. I won't be peeling the guitar again either. That was a real chore the first time.
Turns out most of the ripples pressed out.
There's just one where end of the elbow cut is. Wouldn't notice it playing, and wouldn't notice it unless went looking for it with wandering fingers - can barely see it and even then it looks like part of the elbow cut.
Cut properly this time, checked and checked again.
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Into the vacuum bag.
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Which was then pressed with MDF and clamps.
Top part glued, time for another visual check.
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Still on track.
Going to use offcuts to test stains.
My wudtone inventory includes, Amber, Cherry Flamenco, Goldenrod, Hot Auburn and Burning Sun. Gloss and Satin top coats. (Yes, I bought a few when the wudtone clearance happened.)
I was thinking either Amber or Goldenrod would highlight the Camphor Laurel and still be a good choice for the neck as well.