What do you do with your songs after you've recorded them....

I'm just curious how many people copyright their songs before they debut them online or soundcloud or anywhere else?

I'm not sure how it works over there. Here we copyright a song and it's protected in other countries that observe the same copyright laws. Publishing is also a must after copyright. I've had several songs stolen over the years because I either played them for people or posted them somewhere before they were copyright.
Currently I am working on publishing all my stuff with BMI.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't share raw songs or even lyrics, chord progressions etc until they are fully protected by law. I've spent my entire life around pro, working and journeymen musicians and I don't trust any of them. You sure as hell can't trust some dude down the street starting a band in his basement if he happens to hear one of your guys songs and wants it.

Copyright doesn't have to be registered to be legally binding here in Australia. Though you do need to be able to prove that you wrote it first. Years ago a professional muso here told me that he would mail himself a paper copy and a recorded copy of the song which he would then leave unopened in a filing cabinet so that the postmark could be used as dating evidence in any copyright claim. Joining APRA is a must if you have song performed in public so that you can get any mechanical royalties owed to you.

Personally I haven't written anything worth stealing.

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Originally Posted by Fretworn

Copyright doesn't have to be registered to be legally binding here in Australia. Though you do need to be able to prove that you wrote it first. Years ago a professional muso here told me that he would mail himself a paper copy and a recorded copy of the song which he would then leave unopened in a filing cabinet so that the postmark could be used as dating evidence in any copyright claim. Joining APRA is a must if you have song performed in public so that you can get any mechanical royalties owed to you.

Personally I haven't written anything worth stealing.

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Yeah what Fretty said, I do a fair bit of online collab too, so there's a lot of back and forth emails with files and so on that are all date stamped. I think I'd be pretty honored if someone decided they wanted to steal one of my tunes:P

APRA is a fantastic organisation. If you write anything (and you are in Australia) it should be registered with them. It's always nice to see that little royalty deposit (in my case anyway) go into your bank account every quarter.

Fretworn what you are describing is a poor mans copyright. That doesn't work on ever here in the USA. It has no validity in a court of law. Two steps over here are copyright the publishing.
I've heard some kill stuff on here and would hate to see all your hard work stolen.
All my stuff is copyright and in the process of being published through BMI.

I just don't want to see my friend hurts but lack of protection.

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Originally Posted by Fretworn

Copyright doesn't have to be registered to be legally binding here in Australia. Though you do need to be able to prove that you wrote it first. Years ago a professional muso here told me that he would mail himself a paper copy and a recorded copy of the song which he would then leave unopened in a filing cabinet so that the postmark could be used as dating evidence in any copyright claim. Joining APRA is a must if you have song performed in public so that you can get any mechanical royalties owed to you.

Personally I haven't written anything worth stealing.

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I have done the same except don't bother with the actual post but took them to the post office and had them stamp them over the envelope opening. Works the same and no risk of it being lost in the post.

I hope you guys are right. Over here copyright laws and the Berne law don't recognize the poor mans copyright as legally binding.
Technically speaking over here soon as you record and publish a song it's copyright but for full protection one should still get it done. My music for instance is saved for 70 years or until I die and then another 50 years after that.
Two of my songs were stolen because I was using a poor man copyright.

Just wanted to bring this up. Really hate the idea that some of the good tunes I've heard on here might not be be protected. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Rob L

I hope you guys are right. Over here copyright laws and the Berne law don't recognize the poor mans copyright as legally binding.
Technically speaking over here soon as you record and publish a song it's copyright but for full protection one should still get it done. My music for instance is saved for 70 years or until I die and then another 50 years after that.
Two of my songs were stolen because I was using a poor man copyright.

Just wanted to bring this up. Really hate the idea that some of the good tunes I've heard on here might not be be protected. :cool:

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laws here are different yes but I do wonder how it would go legally in an international case?

Here's something you guys might want to look at. From my readings so far the way you are protecting your songs wouldn't fly in countries with specific copyright laws though it does look like you're part of the berne convention.

Copyrighting can be a real confusing issue but well worth it. :D

http://www.copyright.org.au/

Thanks Rob.
Copyright is a very murky lake to go for a swim in... Its full of crocs and sharks.

When I was at Art School we had a whole semester of copyright theory lessons... Upshot was if you really want to be certain you need to see a copyright shark..errrrm... Lawyer.....
It costs but it is a worthwhile investment!

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Originally Posted by Rob L

Here's something you guys might want to look at. From my readings so far the way you are protecting your songs wouldn't fly in countries with specific copyright laws though it does look like you're part of the berne convention.

Copyrighting can be a real confusing issue but well worth it. :D

http://www.copyright.org.au/

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Simple truth is, in my case, as far as protecting my material goes. I'm just too damn lazy.
As you could appreciate Rob, by the time I've written, performed the entire track and then produced it, there's simply no energy left to go fill out copyright forms.
Would definitely be worth it if I wasn't such a lazy a-hole, I guess I imagine if a time ever arose where someone decided to steal my material I'd just track em' down and beat them up, hehehehe just joking.

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Originally Posted by dingobass

Thanks Rob.
Copyright is a very murky lake to go for a swim in... Its full of crocs and sharks.

When I was at Art School we had a whole semester of copyright theory lessons... Upshot was if you really want to be certain you need to see a copyright shark..errrrm... Lawyer.....
It costs but it is a worthwhile investment!

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US copyright has become quite easy. Can all be done online. Everything is explained. i know for me nothing is platted for anyone until it's protected. Hell even in every band I've been in the band doesn't hear a song of mine until protected. :)

Yeah I've seen the US copyright procudure, but as Fretty said, we don't need a legally binding copyright, I actually mailed out a copy of my band's first song (we are still yet to re record it.... bugga!) to our lead vocalist and she is currently holding it just in case we need it, along with the email that I used to distribute the song. Again, poor man's copyright :D

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Originally Posted by Rob L

Hell even in every band I've been in the band doesn't hear a song of mine until protected. :)

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Sounds kinda paranoid if you ask me:P

Is it paranoia Barge when you see a local band selling a cd with one of your songs on it? A local band that I used to be in.
I don't write songs to just be given away. I'm not gonna put all that work into a song just to have someone else come along and claim it for himself.
I've been in the business to long. I trust few people. Musicians least of which.

Not trying to tell you all what to do. It's up to each of you. If doesn't bother you that your hard work could be stolen and used by someone else....I hope all your poor mans copyright work and you never find yourself on the losing end.

Have I seen a local band selling a CD with songs I've written on it? Yes. My old band. Those songs were written in that band, for that band. When I left the band, the understanding was I left the songs too. I also receive recognition and royalties as a writer of those songs. This, I believe, is the way it should be. I have always written songs according to the situation I am in at the time, and as a fan of many genres and styles, the songs are 99% of the time not transferable between bands.

Our stuff is all registered with APRA, my two band mates have been members since the early 1970s and I dropped out when I stopped gigging in 1981 but I'll probably rejoin because of the input I have with the instrumental side of their compositions.

More interested in the IP than any meagre royalties that may come along