Another DC Junior

Well I just could not resist, got myself a DC-JR and have not told my other half.
Anyway its mahogany body and neck, but I am bit puzzle when I did a mock up build.
And before sanding and hacking away I thought I sought some help

If i could refer to pix 2 and 3 :
1. What's the gap between Lo E and the last fret on DC JR?
2. Is there a gap between neck and the body at the heel end of the neck?

Thank you all for your help.

Regards
Budi

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...859_mockup.jpg
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con..._1863_Gap1.jpg
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con..._1892_Gap2.jpg

Hey Budi,

The gap to the P90 looks OK but could be lower. With your particular bridge it doesn't look like you can do much about it unless you recess the bridge or change it. You can check the signal coming out of the P90 at this height by attaching an output jack directly to the pickup and giving it strum. Shimming the neck (see below) will help this distance a bit but not much..

The E strings should really be flat on the deck with the bridge at it's lowest adjustment height. Looks like you will need to shim the neck to angle it back and bring the string height down. You may also need to take some out of the base of the neck cavity to bring it down closer to the body. When I built my kit I bought a replacement bridge from Stewmac, but it was just too high - the back angle required on the neck looked just too much to attempt with a shim. Try angling the neck just holding it with your hands to estimate how much shim angle is required with this bridge to get the strings flat on the deck. This will tell you if you can comfortably do it with a shim.

Hope this helps..

cheers,
Gav.

Thanks Gav,

Always ready to lend idea. But at the moment my head hurts and I think I'll hit the sack and think about your idea again tomorrow.

Cheers
Budi

Hi Budi,
the gap is a result of the neck slot being angled so the neck points up at the bridge. I'd just sand a bit off the end of the neck heal till it closes up.

I've had the problem of the strings being high with one of my builds I used a forstner bit to sink the bridge posts a mm into the body. the other option is to carefully sand the bottom of the neck heal till it comes up, bearing in mind this will open the gap up more at the foot of the heal.

Cheers PK

Looking at my Epi Jr, the board is up a little so the top of the guard can slot into it easily

Thank you all for your help, I found this on the net,
Is option 3 (3rd from diagram) is option i should achieved?

Thanks again in advance for all your help.

Budi
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...-NeckAngle.JPG

Hi Budi.

I had a look at the Kit I've got and the heal of the neck has a 2mm taper. the body route is effectively flat. So to overcome the bridge height problem you will need to sand the heal of the neck taking a little bit of material off the front of the bottom of the heal. and none off the back

to get rid of the 2mm gap at the end of theneck just sand a taper on the back edge of the neck.

PK

This comes from the "How to build your PBG" Thread

Perhaps the most important part of building your Pit Bull guitar kit is getting the neck centred and correctly aligned. It can seem to be a daunting task; with the right knowledge, some patience, and a bit of string, it is a snap.
As with all aspects of building a guitar, attention to detail is essential. The more attention to detail, the better the guitar will be.
Many people don’t realise that the neck has to be right in three dimensions- back and forward to get the right scale length, side to side to get the right alignment, and up and down to get the inclination to give the right action, and bridge and pickup relationships.

:P The steps:
TIP: You don’t need to use a tape measure to measure- a piece of fishing line or wool or string is all you need (except maybe for Step 1, but that’s up to you). You are comparing one measurement against another.
We’ll discuss the steps to getting your neck pointed- literally- in the right direction. I would suggest that you do this, or at least do a dry run, before any painting on the body or neck. That way that way, if you put a scrape on the guitar it can be fixed when finishing. Scraping an already finished guitar- well, not a good thought, is it.
:) Setting the Scale Length
Don’t assume that by jamming the neck as far as it goes into the body the scale length will be correct.
Measure the distance from the edge of the nut to the high point (the crown) of the 12th fret. Wind all the saddles as far forward (towards the pickups) as they will go. The distance from the edge of the pickup side of the saddles (on the bridge) to the crown of the 12th fret should be the same distance. Most times though, you may find that the second measurement from the saddles to the crown of the 12th fret is approximately 3mm longer. This s called compensation and is quite normal.

:) /<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/String Compensation
If measuring the full scale length (i.e. the full length – not just to the 12th fret as mentioned in the shortcut-tip above) we usually measure at the top-E string. That’s because this string is the thinnest and requires the least amount of string compensation. This string is, therefore, closer to the actual scale length of the instrument. The other strings are generally compensated which means they’re actually slightly longer than the scale length.

:) /<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/]What is compensation?

When you fret a string somewhere along the fretboard, you actually sharpen that string’s pitch by a tiny amount. To compensate for this, each string is made a little bit longer than the instrument’s actual scale length, thereby ‘flattening’ its pitch. The amount that each string is made longer (flattened) depends on that strings size – thin strings not much and getting progressively more as the strings get thicker. Clever, eh?

To nicely illustrate it, this is why acoustic saddles are angled – the sounding length of the thicker, wound strings is actually longer than that of the thinner strings.

Many guitars have adjustable bridges and/or string saddles to allow each string’s compensation be accurately set. Setting the compensation is referred to as ‘intonating‘ the instrument and the compensation overall can be called ‘intonation‘. .

How you work out the measuring point on the saddles will be different, depending on what sort of bridge you are using. You may have to move the bridge or neck slightly to get it right. Be wary of any gaps in the neck/body join, though. You need a tight fit for a good transfer.

:) /<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Square the Neck
The first step to having a square neck is to identify some points of reference on the neck and body of the guitar. You are looking for a couple of points that are square to the centreline of the body, and equally on either side of the centreline. It might be the nust slot on the neck; it might be a pickup rout on the body; it might be the string through-body holes on a Tele, or pivot screws on a Strat or Floyd. They must be square- for example, the bridge on a LP style body won’t be any good because it’s at an angle.
This is crucial. Again, attention to detail is paramount!
Here’s one I prepared earlier… Ignore that this guitar is finished.
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...076-setup1.jpg

There are four points we will refer to. Let's call them A and B on either side of the nut, and Y and Z on either side of the pickup rout in this case- maybe a corner of the rout. It has to be a small point because you are trying to be precise, as you will see. I stick in pins at the points I want to use to measure.
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...bhm-setup2.jpg
The first measurement we take is A to Y, and B to Z. If they are the same, the neck is at the correct angle compared to the body. If they are not, then the neck is pointed towards the measured shorter side.
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...j93-setup3.jpg
The next measurements taken are A to Z and B to Y. If these are the same, then the neck is on the body centreline. If they are not, then the neck is straight out from the body, but not on centre. The neck needs to be moved- if A to Z is shorter, the neck needs to be moved to the A-Y side. The other reason that these measurements might be out is that the neck is twisted, but that is not going to happen with a Pit Bull kit.

:D /<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Setting the Neck Angle (or Inclination)
There is nothing worse than playing a guitar with the wrong inclination- the angle that the neck meets the body, when that angle suits the bridge that is being used. In this case, close enough is good enough because you have a few adjustments that can be made after the guitar is finished. These adjustments include the truss rod, the bridge and the nut.

So, how to do it? It is as simple as the other steps. Set the neck in the body, install the bridge with the saddles about half height, and the pickups (or pickguard if the pickups are mounted in it).
Run your now favourite piece of string from both e-string slots on the nut to the saddles on the bridge. Check out the gaps between string and fretboard at the 12th fret and at the last fret. There should be a reasonable gap. Remember though that the string tension and truss rod will affect the finished neck. Remember, this is one of the rare cases a case where near enough is good enough.

If the inclination is too shallow, the action will be too high; if it is too steep, the strings will be rubbing across the frets. In both cases, it is worthwhile taking time to get a reasonably good angle set up now, to reduce the adjustment required later.

IMPORTANT!!! This goes for most things in life- do not use up all your adjustment during the initial setup! To do so means you have a really, REALLY bad setup.
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT!!! Don’t go hacking at your new guitar to get everything right. If the neck angle seems wrong, it probably isn’t. Stop, have your favourite non-alcoholic beverage, watch the football, and come back later.


NOTE:
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Measuring the distance between the top of 12th Fret and bottom/underside of the respective string, most builders will set action at 2.4mm to 2.8mm on the bass E string at the 12th fret and 1.6mm to 2.0mm on the treble E.

This really Sux. 3 times I have posted This is a SET Neck....

PK

Budi,
Looking at your guitar - looks like you've got a nice bit of wood there - the advice above pretty much holds true for whatever type of neck you have. The Gavmeister setup info is critical to get everything in line, but that seems OK at first look.
It does however seem that the fretboard is riding high compared with the body. Can I ask if the neck is all the way back? My experience with my basses is that even slight adjustments can make a significant difference to the neck angle. Any chance of a photo of the neck channel to see how good the rout is? How tight is the quickgrip? If it can be tightened, that may make a bit of difference. Gut feeling is that it would also be worthwhile making sure that the neck is straight and that there's no bow in either direction - should be, but that again can have an impact on the outcome.

If you've got any more info - some photos of the neck and how it's seated from a couple of angles would be great.

Thank you all for the help I will post replies and further info as soon as I finish boring house chores ie feeding kids ;)

Regards
Budi

Quote:

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/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/Quote from kells80aus on May 30, 2014, 18:44
This really Sux. 3 times I have posted This is a SET Neck....

PK

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My apologies PK

I am sure most will agree that the neck set up is the same for a set neck or bolt on in terms of getting the neck straight and aligned with the body and getting the inclination of the neck right.

As my posting came directly from a previous page that i had posted I simply cut and pasted that information which dealt with both set necks and bolt on necks with the intention of editing the 'bolt on' parts out of the posting. Unfortunately, during this process a client (relating to my real job) came in and my focus was diverted.

I'm sorry you were offended.

Hi Gav. No not offeneded, at anyone. I was frustrated at having to post the same comment 3 times. the comment actually preceeded your cut and paste. and even 1 of Budi's PK :D

Hi Budi.

I took this pic to illustrate that by gently sanding the back of the heal that it will close that 2mm gap. I sanded this one down by about 1.5 mm so that the angled neck tapers to the square neck slot.

Cheers PK
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con..._113535sml.jpg

G'day PK,

Thanks you for your help, sorry haven't been doing anything on this project re DC JR, Have been busy helping my boys with their school works etc.
But my plan of attacks (if I have the time) are:
1. To sand/square the heel end of the neck as you suggest, also to give me a little play later on for intonation.
2. To sink the bridge posts a mill or so into the body to lower the string height. And probably sand the bottom of the neck heel to give a slight angle.

Anyway I'll post some more pics as I progressed, just to make sure I am heading in the right direction.
Again PK and others thanks you for your help.

Regards
Budi

Hi Budi.

If you go with the sinking of the posts you need a decent sized drill press.
When I did it I used a 12 mm short broken drill bit I had, to centre and clamp the body in place.
I then swapped the short broken drill for a 15mm Forsner bit and I set my drill press to only dril in about 2mm that way I kept the work accurate, and not having the posts sitting at differnet heights when the work is done.

Cheers PK

Hi Budi, I took these to show you that there is always some work to do on Kits.
PK
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...psy-002sml.jpg
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...psy-001sml.jpg

Quote:

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from kells80aus on June 10, 2014, 10:37
Hi Budi, I took these to show you that there is always some work to do on Kits.
PK
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...psy-002sml.jpg
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...psy-001sml.jpg

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G'Day PK,

You're right, :? how much gap you got on that kit?
Anyways I managed to close the gap between the neck and the body on kit. And I might ask my in-law to make me a drill bit similar to Forsner drill bit as you suggest. But make it a 13mm instead of 15mm bit.
Another question If I may ask, how much prep do you do before applying sanding sealer (ie Feast Watson)?

Thanks a ton PK for your help.

Budi

Hi Budi
you can see the diagonal across the butt of the neck(which is upside down) It's about 2mm

I haven't checked the bridge clearance yet. as the fretboard is right down on the body. I will probably have to sand the base of the heal a little to raise the angle.

I've been too busy with the "Mellow Yellow" one to do much with this kit.

Cheers PK

Always give it a sanding before you put sealer on. It just makes it easier to level off the body after the sealer has dried, other wise you end up doing a lot of sanding to get it smooth.
If you intend to apply a stain then a sealer is probably not a good idea as it may prevent the stain soaking into the timber. If you intend using a solid colour on top of the sealer then the object of the sealer is so the wood doesn't soak up all the colour.

Just makes it easier to strip back to clean wood if you have sealer on it.

I had sealed my ES335 kit and inteneded to apply a water based stain. Because I had used an oil based sealer the stain would not take to the timber. In the end I used red tinted Shellac on that build.
That guitar is still a Pig of a thing. It plays nice but has a 1/2mm gap under each fret. some one had bent the fret to the wrong arc wehn they installed the frets.

But as it plays OK and I don't have the tools to refret it. I'll just leave it this way till I can get hold of the tools I need. It's just a $100 I don't have right now.

Cheers PK

G'day All

Back on the project again after a very long absent, just got too many distractions.
I see we have a refined/refurbished forum site. Very slick and fast too I noticed. Congrats to all involved
Will post some more or less of my progress doing this DC JR.

Regards

Welcome back Budi. Good luck with the build.

There is never any rush..

PK

Hi BRENDAN, sorry for the late reply and thanks for the advise, but in the end I've sunk the post thus lower distance between strings and fret board. I should have taken photos and post them here for the forum's expert opinion, but I was so impatient to get on with the project. Anyway I will write again tonite and hopefully post some where I am up to with this project. BTW how do I upload photos in this new forum?

Thanks again for your help
Budi

Budi to upload direct 'go advanced' -> attachments -> manage attachments
then choose files to upload and hit upload

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

Budi to upload direct 'go advanced' -> attachments -> manage attachments
then choose files to upload and hit upload

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Thanks Wokka for the pointer, didn't realize the pic upload function was staring at me all the time.

Budi

Hi All,
I've decided to experiment using water dye for staining the body and shellac to finish it off.
Here is a sample

And what I am hoping in the end is a high gloss, hopefully a bright and happy axe.
And I seem to recall reading a thread here in PBG someone's doing a manga theme on his build.
Anyway I may use the idea if the overall result a little bit dull.
Here's another pics I took earlier

Wow that green+ black hardware just looks soooo damn nice, great job Budi!!

Cheers Paul, its good to be back

Budi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bargeloobs

Wow that green+ black hardware just looks soooo damn nice, great job Budi!!

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Thank you Barge,

Yeah got a lot to catch up, but that's enough for tonite. We'll play again tommorow afterwork. ;)

Budi

Green + black = awesome.
http://i.imgur.com/HTMLOie.jpg

Ahhh ... Very Nice Pabblo, one day when my skill is up to par I'll try to match it.

Hi Budi that green looks mean. :)

PK

That bit of grain comming through also adds a nice flavour to this build. :)

Mate, not much skill involved, other than hiding the mistakes. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kells80aus

That bit of grain comming through also adds a nice flavour to this build. :)

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Thanks Paul,
Yeah the grain has a nice subtle look about it, tried to enhance it ie using timber mate, but not too much success. I think its user error, but anyway I am happy with the progress thus far.

Budi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pablopepper

Mate, not much skill involved, other than hiding the mistakes. :)

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Hi Pab, you shouldn't share that tip amongst young padawan like us ;)

Budi

Just don't tell anyone else, OK?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...w=w320-h180-nc

that green and black looks awesome Budi, keep up the good work

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

that green and black looks awesome Budi, keep up the good work

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Thanks Wokka