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Hey everyone,
It was recommended that I put this to the collective wisdom of the forum: I've just finished a TL1 build, and we've been struggling with fret buzz higher than the 12th fret, at a number of frets.
So far, we've (myself and a local luthier):
- Re-seated all the frets. There were a few sitting high, but these have come down okay
- "planed" the frets off to make sure its all level with a large fretboard sanding block
- Checked all the individual frets in relations to adjacent frets and tidied up that as well
- Adjusted the truss rod, matched the bridge to the radius, set the action
- Checked intonation
After all that, we've picked up solid string buzz at a number of frets, as I mentioned. This is with a string action that's quite reasonable and not as low as I'd like.
So we've checked all the individual frets once again, and after sorting out some of these issues, other frets have arisen as problematic.
At this point, I'm a bit frustrated with it, so I've taken the neck off. Looking at the back of it now (from the heel), there looks to be a pretty prominent twist - left rear dropped down.
Any thoughts on this guys? Can't post photos up right now, but will if needed!
Cheers!
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Hey Solo....you mentioned you have had a local luthier check it out for you. Not sure how he missed a twisted neck because that seems to me to be exactly what you have here. The sanding block will have sanded with the twist. Can you get the Luthier to grab a straight edge and run the straight edge along the edge (top and bottom) of the fretboard. This will expose the twisted neck if this is the case. A neck can twist like this if exposed to heat.
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Yeah both of were working on it, and by the end (we probably proceeded too far assuming the best, think it was "pretty close" before checking it) it was pretty obvious. It hasn't seen any heat (unless it did in transport), so it looks like it might just be a dud one.
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I'll put the straight edge on again and check
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Solo, try and post some pictures if you can...
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Will do. Thanks for your input mate
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So, I sat the headstock on the flat of the table, and left the heel resting loose. It’s as good as I can do unfortunately.
I’ve included some reference dimensions and angles in the photos below. If they need some more explanation, I can post some more explanation. The table is sitting pretty much level, and I checked its consistency with the spirit level too. I tried to get as many reference points as I could to show that.
Last Fret, Low E string, height 24mm
Last Fret, Low E string, height 26mm
First Fret, Low E string, height 26mm – a touch under, maybe 25.8mm
First Fret, Low E string, height 26mm – a touch under, maybe 25.9mm
I think the last fret, low e string height is the most telling, being 2mm lower than the high side.
Placing the straight edge over the frets showed nothing really other than the normal tiny bit of back bow that you would expect, which was consistent from the high side to the low side, but given those dimensions, the twist is pretty consistent over the neck length.
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...zd-01-Heel.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...-Nut-Level.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...able-Level.JPG
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Hi Solo,
wait for Gav to respond but the twist of the neck looks to be too far out to me and is the obvious reason for the fret buzz. It looks much worse at the neck heel than the nut end. When the neck screwed to the body when you look down the fretboard from the bridge end does it still look like one side is too high ?
If so you could try fitting a thin wedge under the side of the neck heel that sits lower but this may not work
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Sorry, Not trying to be difficult but the two pictures I need to see needs to sight the neck from the head stock down the length of the fretboard and then from the neck pocket back up to the head stock. The problem you have described earlier in the thread certainly points clearly to a twisted neck and perhaps the first picture lends the most evidence of this, but it is also possible that the issue is simply that the neck base which is supposed to sit level in the neck pocket is in fact not level. Hence I first want to rule out that the neck is or is not twisted.
I know you have gone to a fair amount of trouble to take photographs but the two most important photographs are not there. I am also not sure what a number of photographs are meant to portray, like this one for example?
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...-Nut-Level.JPG
Could I please ask that you take those pictures in good lighting and with clarity from beginning to end (in other words plenty depth of field). Thanks
If the neck is not twisted it may be a simple fix...
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I'll try and get some extra shots at lunch tomorrow guys :) thanks for your input
I'll take some neck pocket dimensions as well when I get the chance.
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Guys, haven't had a chance to take these photos today. I'll have to upload them on Monday.
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Hey guys, hope you all had a good weekend. Pictures below as requested. I hope this makes it a bit clearer.
Cheers!
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...6-P1080195.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...t-P1080200.JPG
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Hi Solo
You neck (fretboard area) looks straight. The issue here I think is that beneath the fretboard there is a difference between the heights of the wood on the left and right side of the neck. It looks higher on the right hand side as I look at it in the pictures immediately above this post. If the neck was twisted parts of the nut would not be visible in the final picture. My thoughts is that this should be an easier fix. The first thing to do is make sure the neck pocket is completely flat and level, then using sandpaper attached to a FLAT piece of wood you will need to sand the base of the neck (the part that sits on top of the neck pocket)so that this is also level and equal thickness on left and right. You will know you have this right as soon as you reattach the neck and all the buzzing is gone! I did wonder how the luthier missed a twisted neck, because that is ALWAYS the first thing we do is to look down a neck for excessive bow, bow in the wrong direction or a twisted neck. Now it all makes sense.
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I hope you're right mate, because this is what I see when I look at it (picture below - hope it comes through clearly enough). Those dotted lines are parallel, but the end of the fretboard itself (rather than the base of the heel), seems to follow that solid line. I know its hard to display over photos.
Just remember that the nut is sitting flat on the tabletop in that last picture. Basically what we should see (if there is any twist), is a difference in the heights at the back. Its not showing twist around the middle of the neck.
I'll sand that back tonight and see how it goes. Thanks for the input mate!
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...-CAD-Check.jpg
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I just put a set of digital verniers on and measured the heel heights from the underside, to the fret board, right next to the fret. Dimensions as below:
16th Fret, Low E (left hand side) = 24.92mm
16th Fret, High E (right hand side) = 25.37mm
19th Fret, Low E (left hand side) = 24.75mm
19th Fret, High E (right hand side) = 25.16mm
21st Fret, Low E (left hand side) = 24.31mm
21st Fret, High E (right hand side) = 24.91
So, typically the right hand side is thicker (as you can pick up from the pictures), but it doesn't account for the difference in the CAD pic I put in above, with the levels. Which leads me to think it might be a combination of both??
I'll carefully sand this down tonight, checking it along the way to see if I can get to a point where its good - split the difference so to speak!
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I'd wait for Gav's advice, but my concern would be if you take some off the right hand side is that just going to accentuate the issue.
You do have something weird going on here though... if you're sanding I'd look to use a large(ish) block as the measurements are all over the place...
. Low E High E Difference
16th Fret 24.92 25.37 0.45
19th Fret 24.75 25.16 0.41
21st Fret 24.31 24.91 0.6
That said, it looks like there is more than 0.2mm gap at the bottom.
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I took a bit off the right hand side of the underside of the heel last night. Its helped and its eliminated most of the buzz now, but you can feel that the problem has sort of moved over, rather than gone completely. The action is a fair bit higher than I'd like, but I'll give it to my father in law and see if he thinks its okay.
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Hi solo, how is this guitar tracking?
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Hi Gavin, thanks for the followup mate. Been away for a bit, so haven't been onto the forum.
Still basically the same. I bought and installed a graphtech tusq nut, which helped a bit. I'd done a fair bit to re-cut the standard nut a few times, but installing the graphtec made a big difference straight away. I never seemed to be able to get the first one right...
Still has a bit of an issue with buzz on the low-E around the 9th fret now (that sort of area), but it doesn't seem to come through the amp or anything.
My father-in law is a bit used to playing a guitar with a higher action, so he doesn't seem to mind it sitting a bit high. I'll continue to keep an eye on the guitar, and if he would like the action lower, then I'll have a look around for another neck I think.
Really pleased with the nut though :)
