Gavs ES-2T Florentine

hi guys,

My birthday has been and gone and left me with 3 new Pitbull boxes in the man-cave here at Holgate. Joy! Although I'd put in my orders, I am particularly happy with a totally unexpected ES-2T kit. Awesome surprise!

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...b-unboxing.JPG

The kit looks good - there is just one patch of glue to deal with and fortunately it isnt on the nice maple veneer. There is one particuarly crappy fret however that looks like something red has been spilled on it and some 80 git sand paper has been used to try and clean it up. I think i'll be able to sand it flat again with a little patience.

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...0-bad_fret.JPG

The veneer has a subtle quilted figure that I'm liking - I've never handled quilted maple before, so will be a nice challenge to get it to pop. I think I'll be rocking a trapeze tailpiece on this one with a fixed tune-o-matic bridge. Dont like the swirly tailpiece supplied so will probably replace with a simple one.

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...dyfromside.JPG

I do have one issue that I need some advice on from the set-neck gurus out there. Although I've worked on 2 set-neck builds in the past, the kits came with the neck already fixed in place. As a result I'm pretty nervous about getting it perfect. I'll post my question about the neck (with pictures) in a follow up post.

cheers,
Gav

hi guys,

I have one question about how to tackle the set-neck on this bad boy. The neck itself is nice and tight, without any large gaps to either side. It goes down right to the bottom of the pocket, sitting nicely against the heel of the body.

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...3-neckheel.JPG

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...k_goodside.JPG

My issue is with one side of the fretboard that looks a little too high - there's a sizeable gap between it and the body even though the heel of the neck seems to be sitting nice and flat in the pocket.

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...ck_gapside.JPG

So what is the solution here? Should I sand down the flat base of the neck on that side? Should I just fill the gap with Timbermate? I'm a total noob as soon as a woodworking issue raises it's ugly head, so any help you Pitbull bretheren can bestow on me is most welcome.

thanks,
Gav.

Hi Gav.
I'm no set neck guru. Hell, I'm still on my second build, and it's a bolt on. However, my first build was a set neck RC-1 and after watching the videos and reading the posts I boldly went where I had never gone before. I took my time, went carefully and, in retrospect, it wasn't as scary as I'd led myself to believe. I'm certainly not fazed by doing another if required. With your experience in guitar building I don't think you'll have any problems. Hopefully they are not 'famous last words'.

What is the cross-sectional (horizontal) angle of the fretboard like in relation to the body? i.e. Is the end of the fretboard level across the body with the body just a little low on the treble side, or is the fretboard skewed and sitting high at the lower edge due to a misshaped heel or neck pocket? You may also want to check the longitudinal neck angle in relation to the TOM bridge you plan on using, just to make sure that gap isn't indicating another potential issue.

If all the angles look good, it could maybe just be solved by glueing a thin strip of matching binding horizontally under the lip of the fretboard binding and then sandng it down to the thickness required. As it's the lower edge you won't really see it so would probably end up being almost invisible... no woodworking, only plastic working required. Just an idea.

Sorry Gav, can't help you with the issue but will certainly be watching this one with interest. Looking to do this one as my next build.

@Scott: thanks for the pointers. I'll take a closer look at the angles to see if the heel is tilting the fretboard. If it isnt't, then i'm going to have to fill the gap with *something* not sure what yet.

thanks everyone for the encouragement. Once I get past this issue and get the neck set it's going to be an enjoyable build :)!!

cheers,
Gav.

The issue is that the soundboard/top of the guitar body is curved whereas the fretboard is straight. Hence a minor adjustment is needed. Apply some 120 grit sandpaper down the intended resting place of the fretboard, then proceed to sand the fretboard. In no time at all the fretboard will take on the curved shape and then should fit beautifully!

Incidentally, this is also the problem often when a bridge rips itself off the soundboard of an acoustic guitar. The soundboard is also curved and the hapless builder just sticks it on flat without first curving it in the same manner described! Then said builder wonders why the bridge eventually tears away from the soundboard (often taking chunks of fibre with it).

Thanks Gavmeister!
Just so it's clear for me - when you say 'sand the fretboard' I'm assuming you mean the underside of the fretboard where it lays along the body?

Thanks,
Gav.

Got some sanding done today. Started with 180 on the sides and back to try to remove some of the original sanding marks. Moved on to 240 and then 360. After one go round with 360 it was time to raise the grain with metho and then another pass with 360 to knock it down again. On the front I began wth 240 and then moved to 360. Grain was raised with method here too, but the sanding was much lighter - I really dont want to sand through the top veneer! Smoooth.

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content...anding_360.jpg

You can just see how smooth it is huh? :P. In the photo you can also see my very first build - a Jackson-Style V. I have just finished giving it some poly (!), shining the crap out of it, and adding shielding. It sounds awesome with it's Entwistle Dark Star Pickups! Rock on - Hoorah!

cheers,
Gav.

great work Gav, is the fret board flush now?

That V looks goood!

@Stan: yeah it's acceptable. I sanded the heel of the neck a little on that side to drop it. Still not perfect, but as it drops on one side it's opening up the gap on the other. I'm pretty happy with how it is now. I am still planning to apply Gavin's suggestion, but I'm still digesting how to go about it..

Cheers,
Gav.

Lots of progress on the Florentine today. I don't think I've written a line of code all week! Anyway, I finished sanding and grain raising to 360 grit yesterday and managed to get my first trace dye onto the body to see how it looked. The purpose of the trace dye (at least for me) is two fold. Firstly it starts to pop the grain, but more importantly it shows any areas where glue persists.

I am still undecided about what colour to go with. I initially thought wine red, but also i'm considering amber. I have gold hardware on its way so these are the best choices I think. Anyway for the trace dye I used Red Mahogany Colortone dye as it was still possible to change my mind after this.

The trace dye did indeed show many many areas where glue persisted. Even a water wipe didn't show these to me! Oh well it was back to the 240 grit paper to give the top (and especially those glue spots) a rite seeing to.


http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...highlights.JPG

My gold hardware turned up from Guitar fetish today and it looks awesome. I have a 335 style trapeze tailpiece, tune-o-matic bridge and GFS Dream 180 humbuckers in gold surrounds. Should sound bloody awesome!

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...2903_bling.JPG

They'll certainly look great with the wine red colour that i have finally decided upon. After testing the look of the new bling, I set to sanding off the first trace dye with 240 grit sandpaper. 2 sheets (and a little of my sanity later) the trace dye was all but gone. I paid special attention to the glue spots. Hopefully i wont see them again. However, only another dye will tell me whether I've managed to get them all!

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...ace1sanded.JPG

Well see for yourself. The new trace dye is 80% Cherry Red and 20% Blue Colortone dye.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con..._tracedye2.JPG

I think it looks pretty good. Some of this will come off again as I sand back with 360, 400 and 600 grit papers. A final dye of 90% Cherry 10% Blue will finish off the colouring process once the sanding has been completed.

I still haven't decided on a colour for the back/neck. I was thinking just natural (with a little amber from the Tru-oil), but I'm also considering Amber or even darker brown. What do you guys reckon??

cheers,
Gav.

Wow, that top... Is that quilted maple? Shame about the glue, but you gotta be happy with that top.

@Pablo: yeah it's quilted. I hope I do it justice, but to remove the glue I did sand the crap out of it. Hopefully it will look good in the end.

cheers,
Gav.

Lucky boy. Love the colour you've gone with, I don't think you'll have any problem about it 'looking good'. I reckon it'll look amazing.

yes as Pest says Wow oh Wow. Love the colours Gav and your forearm must be looking like Popeye's after all that sanding you've done lately. The gold bling on that cherry top will look amazing. Love the technique to find the glue - very clever idea.
As for neck colour I'd start with an amber and then if you need to darken it you have the option

A nice deep brown back and sides would compliment it well. Looks great

That top looks so nice Gav. Going to be awesome.

I'm sure that whatever you decide for the back and sides will look good. But if it was me I wouldn't be going for a dark stain, I think a light amber would show off that beautiful top. If the body is basswood, from my experience with Tru-Oil, I think that TO without a stain would be too light. Just my 2c worth.

rob

Man that looks absolutely stunning Gav. The strength of the colour is beautiful. Personally, I hope it maintains it's boldness.

Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement! In the flesh the top is a little more purple than the photo shows, but I'm hoping that a more red top coat will bring it back from prince territory. I'm considering just continuing the same colour that I use on the top through to the back and sides too. It wouldn't provide contrast, but it would match. What do you guys think of that?

Cheers,
Gav.

Sanded off the second trace coat this morning. Looks even more purple now that the dye is completely dry and has lightened up but that's normal. I have taken quite a bit off with 360 grit and polished it off with 400. It's ready for the last dye coat (I hope) which will be more of a standard cherry. I'm thinking of darkening it with 10% blue, but I'm not sure. Maybe the dye already in the figure (which had 20% blue) will make the end-result dark enough. Hmm..

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...race2sand1.JPG

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...race2sand2.JPG

cheers,
Gav.

Hi Gav
Red+Blue=Purple.
I had also read on the net that some people use a small percentage of blue into cherry to darken it.
But to me, if you put any blue into red it will turn it purpleish. When doing my ES I had the same dilemma.
I ended up using a few drops of both Walnut and Mahogany dye stains (FW Prooftint) in with the Cherry.
It darkened it without losing too much red. Don't know if this is the type of colour you are after?
If so, hope it helps.
Cheers
Andy

Thanks Andy,

Yeah I did a test before starting with 90% Cherry + 10% Blue and it looked pretty good. Just a hint of wine but definately not purple. I really wasn't thinking when I decided to darken this up with more blue for the trace dye. It's been that kind of week. I really should have used mahogany or even black. Oh well, you live and learn. I think I'll do a couple of tests on pine to see what a) 100% Cherry, b) 90%+10% Blue and c) 95%+5% Mahogany look like over my trace. Fun times!

cheers,
Gav.

Ok, so I forwent the testing. Instead I went straight ahead with the finishing off this quilted dye job like a bull in a china shop. I used two colours in the end as part of the job - a 100% Colortone Cherry, and a 90% Cherry + 10% Blue 'Wine-Red' mix. I kept a 90% Cherry + 10% Medium Brown mix on hand (as per Andy's suggestion) in case I needed it, but in the end I didn't.

The Cherry was wiped on first as the 'base' colour for all the non-figured parts of the grain. The wine-red mix was wiped on next to highlight the more figured parts of the quilting. I have used this technique before in my other dye jobs and it seems to work well. What happens is that the base colour settles into the wood where there is no figure. These wood fibres remain saturated with stain, whilst the figured parts of the grain soak in the dye and are ready for more. When the second colour is applied (usually a more concentrated solution of the first) it is wiped lightly across the surface and is taken up by the figure only. Of course this only happens whilst the first pass is still wet. If you take too long, or do too many passes with the more concentrated colour then the whole surface slowly begins to darken.

Basically this is how I worked today, but after the initial pass with the darker shade I kept temporarily changing back to the 100% Cherry to touch up any areas that still looked too purple from the trace dye. In the end I got the dark red I was looking for (or at least a close approximation of it).

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...st-top-dye.jpg

I'm sure it could have been achieved with other colour mixes, but the Blue as darkening agent worked well enough for me in this case. The photo shows a little lighter and 'redder' than the colour is in real life, but it does show the figure standing out quite nicely. The next step will be 3 or 4 coats of Tru-Oil to really get into the grain and bring out the 'chatoyance' (oo la la) of the quilted figure.

I certainly can't take any credit for this method of applying dye to figured maple. I learned about it from this you tube video from Bill of Canadianbreed Guitars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=q1n_g6PA_c0

It's a great video and a great technique - I recommend you check it out if you are using, or are thinking of using, dyes on your guitars.

cheers,
Gav.

Looks stunning Gav

WOW looks great Gav another great build in the making

Well done Gav...the colour looks excellent, beautiful red, glad you got there in the end.
Getting the colour to how you originally envisaged it in your head is far from easy.
This is going to look superb when finished...not an easy build by any standards, but you are so onto it!!

Man, the strength of the colours and grain is fantastic Gav. This is going to be such a bold guitar. Can't wait to see it in the line up.

Thanks guys. I'm not sure this one is going to be to everyone's taste, but hey ;).

I got the dye on the sides and back today. I used the same wine-red colour that I mixed up for the front - 90% Cherry and 10% Blue Colortone dye.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...-first-dye.jpg

The grain on the back of the guitar has come up really nicely, and the contrast with the front of the guitar (I wanted the back of the guitar a little darker) is good. It's amazing that even though this is only basswood, there's some real flame figure happening there! The colour is looking rather pink on the front now that it is fully dry, but both will darken up a quite bit as the Tru-Oil goes on.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...irst-dye-2.jpg

The dye went on without incident (it's uniform at least), although there were one or two minor glue spots that I missed during sanding. For these I'll have to do a bit more sanding and then patch up the dye job.
After that, the next job is to scrape the binding!

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...irst-dye-3.jpg

cheers,
Gav.

so much work Gav, all worth it, nice

hi guys,

A bit more work on the florentine today. I managed to sand and stain the neck and headstock, as well as scrape the binding's clean of dye and put the first coat of Tru-Oil on the top veneer. Trying to scrape that binding inside the f-holes was a bitch. finally managed it with a small exacto-blade. Fun times.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...rst_truoil.jpg

cheers,
Gav.

looks amazing Gav, well done. You know having a photo with a bottle of tru oil in it will earn you a nice stay in the naughty corner, its getting mighty crowded !

Hehe thanks Wokka. I can't help living dangerously :).

cheers,
Gav.

Here's another shot sans the Tru-Oil. I think it's a better shot than the previous one - you can see the figure a little better ;). The colour is very RED isn't it. In real life it's a lot darker than it looks here I promise 8-) . I'll get a photo tomorrow in the sunshine to try and give a true representation.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...t_truoil-2.jpg

cheers,
Gav.

terrific job

we've just fit a sunlight in the naughty corner Gav and we ordered a keg of tru oil, so you should be able to get a good photo there. Looking stunning, few more coats of 'clear' should make that grain really pop

Coming together very nicely Gav. That red neck is outrageous. Love it.

@Stan, @Pablo: thanks guys. it's looking better with each new coat of tru-oil. @Wokka: oh wow, finally i get to hang out with the cool kids :P.

cheers,
Gav.

more the merrier in the naughty corner Gav, since it started it's quite decked out now and got enough room to keep building, we've just run out of beer though, please bring a few slabs !