New Guitar of the Month Entry Conditions

Our Pit Bull Guitars Guitar of the Month Competition has really exploded this month. I've just sent our June guest judge, Phil Manning, 14 entries to the comp. That means a total of around 50 photos to look at closely and 14 guitars to comment on. As Phil said in a very quick response, "Holy Sheet, there's a bit to look at!". It's a lot to ask of a busy muso who has volunteered his time.

So, in fairness to everyone, we need to tighten our entry conditions for the GOTM Competition.

1. The guitar must be made from a Pit Bull Guitars Kit (any upgrades or mods are allowed, as long as the body and the neck are from the kit).
2. Only one guitar per person per month. (Sorry Gav and Wokka but you guys comprise almost 50% of the Comp this month)
3. Photos must show: full frontal shot (whole guitar), close up on body finish, back of the guitar and close up of the headstock.
4. Photos must be emailed to me (adam@pitbullguitars.com) by midnight on the last day of the month preceding (eg 30 June for the July Comp).

That's it! Nothing unreasonable. If anyone has any suggestions for improving the comp please share your thoughts.

I think the limit might discourage some of the folk who would like to enter more than one guitar and get a feel for what the community likes and dislikes? Might be an idea to have the community vote and select the top five guitars which then go forward to the guest judge?

Ok, well, I'm happy to go with the community's preference. I'm not sure having the community vote would be a good idea, might put a few people offside. You could use Facebook though and post all entries to pick the Top 5 or 6 based on "Likes". Happy to hear any other ideas.

Yer Adam, maybe top 5 based on likes sounds noice, or use a survey (if you hit 400 likes in June!!!)???

I like the one-per-month idea. If you have say three guitars eligible (as I will come the next comp) it shouldn't deter one from completing them, and you can always gauge the response from the Build Diary comments as to which of the three is worth submitting.

Alternatively, I could choose my own favourite. Plus the one-per-month rule would leave me with three months worth of entries good to go! :D

Pest, we hit 401 likes earlier today. Still waiting for my letter from Mark Zuckerberg.

Yay!!!! Damn, you have come a long way Adam, but this is only getting better and better!!!! i didn't see the 400 likes because I was resting my legs after running 5km NON STOP at 9:05am!!!!!

One entry per month would be my preference.

I'm with Bass Guy; multiple projects then become multiple opportunities to win - provided you can cache guitars to be submitted at a later stage.

It seems to me that if we allow faster builders to submit multiple entries this may disadvantage others. Particularly if this field is then reduced to 5 or 6 and contains multiple entries from some builders.

How about a lag between winning entries? You win this month, can't enter next?

i think the rules are fair to all , level playing for all .

1 a month seems fair to me.

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Quote from Brendan on June 2, 2013, 18:07
How about a lag between winning entries? You win this month, can't enter next?

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I think that's a good idea too. If someone were to establish a monopoly some other people might loose interest.

Another option might be to graduate anyone who has won 3-times into a
"Pro" category, leaving new builders with a better chance to win.

i think the pro and novice category is a great idea. no offence to bramley and wokka of 4d . these guys make guitars for a living or serious hobbies. which would mean they will have alot more tools on hand compered to novices like most. so maybe a pro/novice winner then they face off for the final win

I think one entry per month is reasonable. It keeps the competition open and allows anyone to have a go, regardless of whether its their first build or fiftieth... great for encouraging novice builders and new members.

However, if Pit Bull continues to grow we could soon easily see 20+ single entries in a month... great for the business, not so good for the poor guest judge. I'm not too keen on the idea of the community picking a top 5 or whatever, as we are all highly invested by the nature of the community, so things can very easily get messy. I much prefer the concept of an external independent judge scrutinizing the entries and offering critical appraisal on all contenders. Then again, it is partly about showcasing the Pit Bull kits and what can be achieved with them, so it would be nice if was the best of the best. Regardless, if the competition numbers get too high again I guess it will be necessary to look at further ways of limiting/short-listing entrants.

If the rules are to change which they must, it makes sense to consider the next 6-12 months as well. In February we had only 1 entrant, In March there were two. Fast forward to June and there were 14. All the guitars in the March and February comp were built by Wokka and I. For both of us, this is a hobby which we enjoy and the competition is just for fun. Let's face it, its guitar of the month judged solely on the looks of the guitar. No judge gets to play them, check the intonation or playability, etc.
I think Scott is right in that there will soon be 14 individual entries or more every month. There has to be a way of thinning this out before subjecting a judge to the task of picking a winner from so many guitars. What is the fairest way of doing this?
I think its unfair to tell Wokka who has bought 20 plus guitars in 9 months that he cannot enter more than half fthe guitars he has built because in the next 9 months he is likely to purchase 20 more. His support of the business and his contribution on the forum should entitle him to submit each guitar for evaluation. Each guitar purchased should equal one compo entry. The only issue is how should it be done?
If it is not going to be left to the forum members to decide, perhaps there needs to be a committee of past winners or the mods that have to decide on the best that go forward to the final and the guest judge?
I have only ever entered the competitions for fun. As already mentioned, noone even hears if the guitar can actually play!

Easy solution.
Miss Fiona sorts 'em out and sends five through to the guest judge :D :P

Just kidding, but this is an issue we are trying to work through in order to keep it fair for all.

Gavin does have a point in regards to Wokka, but our Wokka is an exceptional Pit Bullian!, no one has bought and built more Pit Bull kits than Woks has.... even I don't come close to his record (To date, I have done 14 or 15)

But is it unreasonable to say one per month? I would like to hear Wokkas input, He is a fair minded guy and I don't see him taking offence to this idea, given the way the competition is growing.

The problems with the Moderators sorting through the entries and short listing is it brings it back in house, something Adam is trying to avoid so there can be no calling shenanigans or percieved favouritism towards any one.

Also, this would exclude Gavin from entering as there would be a conflict of interest and it would be unfair to exclude Gav from entering.

So, all things considered, I feel that for now, the best way forward is to say one per builder per month, this way everyone gets a fair go and we won't give the guest Judge a nervous breakdown!

Hmmmm... Even for me, this is a hard decision, because Wok and Gavin are seriously awesome guys, and they love entering GOTM....

How about a class rating based on number of Pitbull guitars purchased.

Less than 5, Novice Kit Builder.
5 to 10, Hardcore Novice Kit Builder.
10 to 20, Pro Kit Builder.
20+, Harcore Pro Kit Builder.

Then for each class, the staff at Pitbull select their top 3 faves and put them through to the judge who doesn't have the mega task of choosing the best of 12, he/she has to choose the best of 3 four times.

and to make the judges job easier, have a proforma set of criteria to guide them through their responses so they can address each entry with only a couple of minutes work on each. The criteria would also be a useful tool in guiding them to look at areas that are important to Pitbull guitar builds, whilst not removing their own observations, of course.


This kind of structure is also scalable.... If PitbullG stays small (which it's not going to) then adjust the number of kits purchased to scale the categories.

But I agree with past comments, cutting entries down to one per person makes it easier for noobs to enter but also makes it less appealing to those who have helped get Pitbull to this point. That's why I think categories is the only reasonable option.

It's getting complex now, unfortunately. Thanks Gav for your bit - you make good points, I would want all of my guitars to receive recognition. At one a month 20 guitars is (obviously) almost 2-years worth of GOTM and I doubt that Wokka is done yet.

As an aside; what a massive effort by Wokka! I thought I might be going a bit overboard with one built, one on the bench and one on order since I discovered PB in April.

I would like to refine my suggestions;

- Two categories - GOTM-AM and GOTM-PRO, for example.

- Graduation into the PRO class is automatic after a certain number of wins in the AM category (possibly even after 1?). Rather than using commercial status, qualifications or kit-building-speed to categorise people.

- Entrants are encouraged to display as many guitars as they like on each months GOTM Forum. However each builder must nominate only one as the entry, possibly guided by other people’s comments and reactions to each machine.

- (inspired by Gav’s remarks) Hold a GOTM of the Year! Possibly as part of a PitBull builders conference/get-together. Where the winning guitars from the previous year are viewed up close and judged on all aspects of the instrument? I’d post one to Perth for you guys to look at.

- Then if the entry numbers swell, as Gav and Mike quite rightly suggest, then Mike’s idea of adding even more divisions could come into play.

Sorry, late additions...

Guest Judges are great, however I can see how this might not always work - or the job becomes too big an ask.

- In place of a single Judge, it is my opinion that a Forum-wide voting system is best (a peoples vote sort of thing).

- A specific GOTM section on the PB web page may even be advisable?

I'd say one per per person per month, and it has to be in the month (+ 1 week for the builds that finish late in the month) that it was finished in. No banking up entries for the next 4 months.

Obviously the honour system will have to come into play a bit here, but as long as there are no fabulous cash prizes and 'round the world cruises on the line nothing will be gained by gaming the system.

Maybe even require a build diary thread if you want to limit it further.

Ooooh, not sure about putting a time limit on the completion of the kits. We've seen some kits come in from the factory that require a helluva lot of work to get them up to scratch...it also flies in the face of the logical "don't rush, take it slowly" approach that is counselled throughout the forum.

To continue, for instance I have a project onboard which I have for nearly a month but I am awaiting the arrival of a particular finish. As this is out of my hands, should it be that I can't enter the completed guitar if it falls outside a certain time period?

Both Mike and Rhay do have some good points and ideas.

one of the reasons I am not so keen on us Pit Bull staff judging is the conflict of interest involved.
I am Mates with both Gavin and Wokka, and I would be very uncomfortable judging their work.

I do like the group system idea, but there is only one Wokka and I would be surprised if we get to many builders with his level of addiction :)..

So, how does an age based system sound?
Under 25's
25- 50's
50 and up

Hmmmm.... Yes, that system could work DB, maybe even have a finale where the finalists get the ultimate GOTM award???

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I'd prefer not to get into categories or otherwise complicate a competition that is just meant to be a bit of fun, so let's keep it how it is for the moment. I'd just ask those who are building multiple guitars a month to maybe consider just entering one or two, to lighten the load on the judge.

If it does get out of control and we end up with 20+ guitars per month, I'll look at forming a Panel of anonymous judges from the Forum (who do not have an entry in that month's comp) to pick the Top 10.

Hope everyone is happy with this.

Guitar of the year?

GOTY would be neat!

Adam, that is a top idea. I don't like the idea of tallying Facebook likes, while you'll probably get more likes for the page, it could lead to vote farming which could be unfair.

Impartial and anonymous forum members seems like it could work well.

GOTYE awards!

Guitar of the year excellence awards!

Wonder if he'd agree to judge them???

omfg. I met him once, what a guy!

sounds great.. GOTYA..... just hope a young-un like ones self is still the right side up as each year blends seamlessly like into the next day... lol
I'll go along with what management devises, I consider the GOTM to be a place where you can proudly show off what you have accomplished.
When are we going to start an "Old farts corner" for silly old farts like me?

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Quote from Bass Guy on June 3, 2013, 08:19
Ooooh, not sure about putting a time limit on the completion of the kits. We've seen some kits come in from the factory that require a helluva lot of work to get them up to scratch...it also flies in the face of the logical "don't rush, take it slowly" approach that is counselled throughout the forum.


To continue, for instance I have a project onboard which I have for nearly a month but I am awaiting the arrival of a particular finish. As this is out of my hands, should it be that I can't enter the completed guitar if it falls outside a certain time period?

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It sounds like this discussion is done, but just to clarify: I think you've misunderstood what I meant by finished. :)

I don't mean the application of finish. I meant completed. Nothing to do with build time.

As a totally contrived example: You get a kit in January. It takes you 3 months to sand and stain/paint/wudtone. Takes two more months to put it together. We're now in May. Take another 3 weeks to get fancy strap locks that make all the difference delivered. You finally get them put on in the last week of June. That means you're eligible to enter for June if you can get the photos in, or July.

That said, it sounds like we're trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist. Adam's "just think about it guys" approach is probably the most effective and reasonable at this stage.

OK with the rules as is, though I do like the idea of a Build Diary either being required or part of the judging (I know - blows out the judging), but it does encourage people to share their experiences, journey and unique solutions / stuff ups that help us all learn along the way. Down side is that for massive contributors in other ways (especially Gav & Wok), we have just put a stumbling block in the way for them.... :(

Hi All,
yes I'm happy with the one entry per person per month, just means you will have to enter the best guitar you have built. I won't slow down my Pitbull orders and it means myself and Wayne can enter one guitar each per month.
Don't like the idea of categories like age or how many kits you have built or GOTM's you have won, will make the beginners strive to build a better guitar and this normally happens the more you build.
Will be ordering more kits tomorrow for some scratch body builds so these won't be eligible to enter, so not all the Pitbull kits we have used the body supplied.
If you do get around 15-20 entries with the one per month rule then maybe a community vote to narrow down to 5 or 6 entries sounds fair, one vote per member.
Sometimes its hard to find the time to take photos and write a build diary so not that keen on the idea a build diary is a must, I prefer to spend the extra small chunks of time in the workshop !
I'm always happy to change rules that suit and make the judges job easier !
I like the idea of Guitar of the Year, maybe a special judge can pick the best guitar out of the 12 GOTM winners of the calender year, so pick the best GOTM winners January 2013 to December 2013

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[b]Quote from phloggy on June 3, 2013, 10:27

I don't mean the application of finish. I meant completed. Nothing to do with build time.

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I didn't mean paintjob either- I too meant completed. :D But your clarification makes total sense, and puts my mind at ease.... ;)

I think the most important factor must not be overlooked in the GOTM comp on the Pit Bull forum and that is that most all of the GOTM entrants and winners have been forum built guitars. That is to say that in some small way, each entrant in his/ her acceptance speech would probably have to thank many others in the forum for advice, information and the like. Our forum thrives on the simple fact that it is operating like a close knit family. Every one gets along, no hidden agenda's, just mutual respect and mutual passion for building guitars and (not to forget Brenden and Elliot) basses. Oh bugger, and DB too! (That recurring dream of a fretless pink bass came back to haunt me for a second).
Without Adam's vision, time and generosity, we would not have an on-line kit guitar shop with video's, a community forum and indeed the monthly competition. Without the forum itself, we wouldn't have made all the friends we are making, or been able to get the additional "know-how" from people like DB who cannot enter the comp's (probably because he'd win them all, but more importantly because he is now part of Pit Bull).
This thread has certainly been a lively discussion and clearly shows the importance of the competition to those who have responded. The forum is alive and well thanks to everyone's passionate contributions! :)

That is my whole vision of PBG in Gav's words there!!!

Well said Gav, this certainly is an amazing Forum!

Now about Stain v. Paint........ ;)

After 12 months of GOTM, there could be a Guitar of the Month calendar, with each month showing off the winner from the same month in the previous year....perfect (G rated) calendar for the wall of any man cave :)